quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I can only assume at this point you're utterly naive. The only part that is true is that they had long held desires to remove Saddam, but again they were financial.

Yeah, the guy who thinks large scale invasions involve more than the whims of 2 men is the naïve one, lol!

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN You really think Bush/Cheyney/Neocons care about "spreading democracy". Give me a fucking break. It's not very well hidden code for removing people they don't like with military force so they can make more money once they are out of the way.

That was the standard neocon assertion, that they could destroy dictators and build nations in line with US strategic interests (the mid east/oil etc).

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Sorry if it's too simplistic for you but sadly that is what it comes down to. Billions have been made from Defense contracts handed out to his cronies, including his VP, and that doesn't even mention oil (which I'll get to). I agree it's it's complex in organisation and logistics, but extremely simply when distilled down to the essence, or fundamental reason for going to war.

Repeating the same unfounded assertions doesn’t make them any less unfounded.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Again, "reducing dependence on Hostile oil?". You've backtracked on that since so I won't say anymore but they're not a green party and have a stern track record on derailing the progress alternative energy sources. Ask yourself why; Because of their interests in Oil as a commodity i.e it's monetary value to them and their supporters.

I didn’t backtrack, I pointed out this wasn’t the primary reason, but was part of it.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I'm starting to think, you're either truly shit at getting your point across or you don't know what you're trying to say yourself. I do and it's simple. This war was about financial interests and there's too much of a paper trail and too much proof to believe anything else.

You’re right, I lose patience with imbeciles whose understandings of complex political issues boils down to childish conspiracy nonsense.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN As for the oil, go back to that article I posted. If you can't be bothered, the look up the Carlyle group, which Bush Sn was forced to resign as Chairman from in 2003 due to criticism of war profiteering. he still gets paid huge consultancy fees, and is a major shareholder (all public record). Carlyle group was also a massive contributor to all Bush campaigns.

The article you posted wasn’t about oil. You told me to follow the links, and I asked you to quote the relevant information, since I’m at work. I don’t deny the profiteering re contracts to defend/rebuild, the cronyism was strong with them. What I am disputing is that the invasion was about claiming Iraqi oil (by either the US or Bush’s personal theft team) and the contracts were the reason the US went to war. There is a wealth of supporting evidence for this, which you just hand-wave away in favour of your immature little notions.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Here is Carlyle groups webpage listing in many of their companies, their expertise in "Oil and gas exploration and development in the middeleast" not to mention funds and infrastructure. http://www.carlyle.com/fund/buyout/...i/item9177.html

Gee thanks. I’ll let all the russian and chinese oil companies know they’ve got competition for all the contracts they’ve already won!

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Now go a few pages back and look at your responses. Your entire language and tone is nothing but defensive of the Republicans with special emphasis for their "reasons" for going to war. When I challenge it, you start giving excuses such PNAC and Neocons, which are nothing but distractions from the primary point that this war was about financial interests for the Bush Adminstrations and fuck all to do with those key words like "democracy" and "dependence on hostile oil".

Go back a few pages and you’ll see I am an abusive cunt who can’t stand fools and their idiotic opinions in subjects that are apparently far beyond them. I don’t give a shit about the GOP (as any TA here can attest to). all I care about is accuracy, and your revisionism isn’t only wrong, it’s completely retarded.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Also, please read this: http://www.thedebate.org/thedebate/iraq.asp

All of that is completely contradicted by chinese and Russian domination in oil contracts in post war Iraq.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Some great info, not just about oil but a preconceived plan to invade that had nothing to do with reacting to humanitarian issues or democracy.

Yes, a pre-conceived plan by the neocons who wanted to smash Iraq since the first gulf war (see letter to clinton I posted already). This isn’t news, many people in the US had long desired to take out saddam.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Finally and most damningly, read this, especially the bit about how Exxon mobil (yes, Exxon) has magically won the contracts for the HUGE future expansion or Iraq's oil output. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...3055705494.html

Well its good to see the US finally won one. I suppose obama owns Exxon?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Still think I don't get the "nuances"?

As far as identifying the gears and machinations behind the war, then no, your viewpoint is one-dimensional and immature.

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Why are we attacking RANN? Even if he is stupid, he is attacking Kevin, so he is on the good side, even if his logic is flawed.

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Originally posted by Lews You may understand what you're trying to say, but you're also wrong. It's pretty damn obvious you don't have any clue what you're talking about as you're just spouting a bunch of CT shit and throwing logic away completely.

You're entitled to your opinion and so am I.

I've backed up my reasoning and even included what I consider valid sources.

I couldn't give a shit if you want to chime in every couple of pages just to drop this kind of limited "insight"

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Why are we attacking RANN? Even if he is stupid, he is attacking Kevin, so he is on the good side, even if his logic is flawed.

Because Kevin might be a wingnut, but he’s our wingnut. And other than his rejection of AGW, I haven’t seen him spout stuff that’s as ludicrous as rann’s nonsense.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Because Kevin might be a wingnut, but he’s our wingnut. And other than his rejection of AGW, I haven’t seen him spout stuff that’s as ludicrous as rann’s nonsense.

Yea, but CT, while annoying, are rather harmless because both sides take them as fools, but I'd rather have those fools attacking something with real danger like conservatives and republicans.

Deal with the CT after.

Remember: By any means available.

quote:

Originally posted by Joss Weatherby something with real danger like conservatives and republicans.

the danger is palpable. the suicide bombings must be stopped.

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Originally posted by The17sss the danger is palpable. the suicide bombings must be stopped.

If there is cancer in the body, do you wait for it to spread or nip it in the bud before its too late?

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby If there is cancer in the body, do you wait for it to spread or nip it in the bud before its too late?

the only cancer spreading like wildfire is the current government leviathan.

Haha you guys crack me up. You should seriously consider a video-taped boxing match between you two.

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Originally posted by The17sss for real. she doesn't do anything productive... she just lobs overly incendiary grenades with the sole purpose of getting outrageously outrageous reactions. she should go back to being a lawyer and keep her trap shut; she's not doing the Republicans any favors.

Kev can't stand many of the right-wing pundits I can't stand, and for all the right reasons, too.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Kev can't stand many of the right-wing pundits I can't stand, and for all the right reasons, too.

Truth. So many of them are just awful to listen to and don't help the situation.