Um no both citizens and not-citizens can be arrested and detained by the Patriot Act. Do your research before you talk.

Hah and why are you giving me all that congress stuff. I'm not talking about ideals, I'm talking about how it is now, I'm talking about "freedom" fries, and I'm talking about profiling and dirty looks some people get on the street.

Some cities don't tolerate it? So what? It's still the law passed by that congress you just quoted. And when it will come to the Patriot Act or their jobs, guess which way its going to go.

But you know what else? The national socialist patry's post-Reichstag bill was ALSO designed to protect the average german from terrorist acts such as that infamous fire, designed to be only used on terrorist suspects and look how well THAT worked out. You see it's not about for what purpose it was passed, but rather HOW IT WILL BE USED.

Now, for democracy. By it's definition it simply CAN'T be a democracy with some changes. That's like changing the formula of Tylenol by one single atom and still calling it Tylenol. Doesn't work like that.

In both countries something of great magnitude happened, something that scared its residents enough to pass a bill effectively removing any traces of a democracy in that country, producing a spurt of nationaistic pride, creating much discrimination against certain ethnic groups and nations, finally culminating in illigal attacks on sovereign countries. <------ This still stands

^^yup, the only "democratic choices" we have left are BE PATRIOTIC OR DIE!!
id rather die.

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Originally posted by Cal Um no both citizens and not-citizens can be arrested and detained by the Patriot Act. Do your research before you talk.

What like actually POSTING the patriot act in my last post? LOL make sure you read carefully before posting. But in case you don't feel like reading through it like I did:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commen...ramasastry.html
http://lawreview.stanford.edu/conte...55/4/Sinnar.pdf

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Hah and why are you giving me all that congress stuff. I'm not talking about ideals, I'm talking about how it is now, I'm talking about "freedom" fries, and I'm talking about profiling and dirty looks some people get on the street.

This is requiring a lot of restraint on my part ... ok I posted all that congress "stuff" to refute your point that the bill was designed to create an atmosphere of discrimination. And what the hell does freedom fries have to do anything? It was 2 congressmen who asked the cafeteria manager to change the name of french fries to freedom fries in the cafeteria ... please tell me you're building your case on something mroe than that. And you don't even LIVE here how the hell can you speak about profiling and dirty looks on the streets of america??? And even IF dirty looks and profiling was prolific on the streets your attempts to establish causality with the US gov't is in error because the US gov't is not encouraging citizens to discriminate. THe real reason would be that people still hold resentment from the attacks.

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Some cities don't tolerate it? So what? It's still the law passed by that congress you just quoted. And when it will come to the Patriot Act or their jobs, guess which way its going to go.

Sigh again I was refuting your point that all vestiges of democracy were removed.

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But you know what else? The national socialist patry's post-Reichstag bill was ALSO designed to protect the average german from terrorist acts such as that infamous fire, designed to be only used on terrorist suspects and look how well THAT worked out. You see it's not about for what purpose it was passed, but rather HOW IT WILL BE USED.

Ok so how is the patriot act being used to remove political parties and consolidate power in the federal government?

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Now, for democracy. By it's definition it simply CAN'T be a democracy with some changes. That's like changing the formula of Tylenol by one single atom and still calling it Tylenol. Doesn't work like that.

What are you talking about??? Our officials are ELECTED. THE SAME AS YOURS.

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In both countries something of great magnitude happened, something that scared its residents enough to pass a bill effectively removing any traces of a democracy in that country, producing a spurt of nationaistic pride, creating much discrimination against certain ethnic groups and nations, finally culminating in illigal attacks on sovereign countries. <------ This still stands

Again, the bill didn't remove all traces of democracy, it's an infringement on civil liberties ... learn the difference! What atmosphere of discrimination ... there are no laws specifically targeting muslims and their are laws that protect them as any other citizen??? And although the war in Iraq could be considered illegal it was not necessarily established as illegal ... At either rate the UN never declared it as such.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2826331.stm

At any rate, your comparisons with Nazi Germany are quite weak.

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Furthermore, according to your theory of "molecular" democracy I could come to the conclusions that Canada's been stripped away of all democracy :

IMPRISONED FOR HATING SOMEONE

In Canada, a person may already be sentenced to a 5-year prison term for merely "speaking words that incite to hate." On March 27, 1996, Winnipeg police arrested a 17-year-old Canadian teenager for sending the following e-mail message to a local political activist: "Death to homosexuals; It's prescribed in the Bible! Better watch out next Gay Pride Week!!!" It was the first time in North America that police charged an Internet user with committing a hate crime over the Net.

Section 318 of Canada’s Criminal Code makes it a crime to "advocate genocide". The term "genocide" was coined in 1944, referring to Nazi Germany’s attempt to destroy European Jewry. Genocide may be defined in some cases as "Causing physical harm or mental harm to a minority."

"Advocating" genocide, or "causing mental harm" are issues that makes the subject of hate crimes extremely controversial. Any time a court of law is empowered to condemn a man for what he advocates, or what he thinks mentally, we will have entered into a world of thought police.

How far are we from such a world?

Canada’s "Public Incitement of Hatred" Law, [Section 319(1) of the Criminal Code] makes it a crime to "publicly incite hatred".

319. (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

("Communicating" in this context includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting or other audible or visible means; "statements" in this context includes words spoken or written or recorded electronically or electro-magnetically or otherwise, and gestures, signs or other visible representations.)

Citizens of Canada are ALREADY being incarcerated for SAYING things that are "politically incorrect"! In addition, "hate crimes" have been narrowed down to "inciting hate" - so if you make someone hate someone else, you may find yourself in jail. (Please note: we cannot approve of hate, or hate crimes, but neither can we approve of a loss of our freedom of speech.)

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WoW there is actually 15 peeps that think he is a winner!
and only 1 posted he is a winner just for fun ( alccode hehehe ).. I know they are just scared to get flamed he, I wont flame them, your opinion

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by LiquidX WoW there is actually 15 peeps that think he is a winner! and only 1 posted he is a winner just for fun ( alccode hehehe ).. I know they are just scared to get flamed he, I wont flame them, your opinion

I think he's a wiener so I voted as such . Seriously though, sometimes I really do think my wiener can do a better job.

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Originally posted by occrider I think he's a wiener so I voted as such . Seriously though, sometimes I really do think my wiener can do a better job.

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Originally posted by LiquidX

Dude stop winking at me ... you're starting to freak me out

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Originally posted by occrider Dude stop winking at me ... you're starting to freak me out

LOOOL its the server!

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Originally posted by LiquidX LOOOL its the server!

Suuuurrrreeee ... it was the server

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Last edited by occrider on Jun-13-2003 at 18:59

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Originally posted by occrider I think he's a wiener so I voted as such . Seriously though, sometimes I really do think my wiener can do a better job.

haha. george bush: winner, wanker, or occrider's wiener!

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Originally posted by JM take a highly liberal forum. then take the most liberal ppl out of the liberal forum and have them post about politics in here. and best of all, more than half don't have valid arguments. Apart from JohnSmith who backs his points up, even if I don't agree. no wonder the "wanker" vote is winning. i voted, naturally, WINNER! >JM<

More then expected from you.. whom disappeared without BACKING your FOR WAR support argument, whom also disappeared just because you dont have any Proofs now and will look really baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

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