Interesting direction this thread has taken.

I haven't read through everyone's responses, but I see that the issue of art censorship has come up. Just last week, myself and two classmates did a presentation on an art censorship issue for the Art Gallery of Ontario, and their decision to display a certain controversial exhibit. See, the AGO has a duty to stand up against art censorship - it is a cornerstone in Toronto's art community. Besides, people who deem the exhibit is "smut" can choose to not go see it. The university, however, has only the responsibility of acting in the interests of its students, and when those interests oppose, to make decisions that strike an appropriate balance between the interests of the students.

The issue in this case is the rights of the men who enjoy the poster vs the rights of the girl who complained. From what I understand, she HAS to see this poster everytime she goes to class, does she not?

By taking the poster down, the university is not forcing you to NEVER look at it again. You can have it up in your home or whatever other PRIVATE space you have. But by keeping the poster up, you force her to be subject to it every single time she has class. So the university would essentially be forcing her into an uncomfortable educational environment. It's not up to you or to the university to decide whether her feelings are valid or worthy of attention. The university has a responsibility to balance the issues of the students.

I doubt that if you, as a single individual, felt uncomfortable about something, would appreciate being ignored just because you weren't part of majority opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper From what I understand, she HAS to see this poster everytime she goes to class, does she not?

no.
she isnt in this class.
and she cant use the room as its locked and she isnt a part of the class with the combo.

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quote:

Originally posted by j_spot no. she isnt in this class. and she cant use the room as its locked and she isnt a part of the class with the combo.

So who, in total, goes into that classroom?

Durafei's 20 classmates, their instructor - but surely they don't have sole use of the lab 24/7.

From what I gather, no one who actually used the room minded the poster. Objectively, the poster is much tamer than the images one might find on page 3 of a British tabloid. It sounds like the whole thing started when this woman happened to see the poster through the window. No one forced her to see it--she can always choose not to look through the window when she passes by. The poster is not inflammatory and does not encourage violence against anyone, so it cannot be construed as hate speech. And the whole issue of the university being publicly funded is irrelevant, since this would not have been an issue if the poster had been hanging in a dorm room. On the other hand, the department does have the right to control what is or is not allowed in its workspaces, so even if the poster is not obscene, the department can forbid it nonetheless.

I'm also curious if there would have been an issue if the image had been heterosexual. It could be an interesting experiment.

quote:

Originally posted by las3rjock I'm also curious if there would have been an issue if the image had been heterosexual. It could be an interesting experiment.

HAHA!!!

and put it in the exact same spot so she can 'see' it...

Oh man...that's just mean, but I like it!

[EDIT] In fact...here's one..

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Last edited by Fir3start3r on Oct-05-2003 at 15:51

^ hahaha, I'm loving it... do it!

I still think jdjd hit the nail on the head. If she was offended in a moral sense, then she might have a case, but if she was just pissed off in a personal sense (like many people get when they're dateless and see members of the opposite sex drooling over models), then she should've kept her mouth shut. Obviously we'll never know which sense she was offended in, but I think one has to keep both possibilities in mind.

Whoever complained was in no way being forced to look at that picture. She doesn't have to stare into the lab on her way to class, if she was even on her way to class! In order to see a poster through the window, she must have been taking a good look inside that lab, which one might go so far as to say she had no business doing anyway - do you peek into other people's lectures long enough to identify everything that's on the walls, when you don't even have any classes in that room?

Las3rjock makes the best point I think... the university does have the right to control what gets put in its workspaces. I just find it silly that they caved in to the complainant so easily.

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quote:

Originally posted by Skipper Durafei's 20 classmates, their instructor - but surely they don't have sole use of the lab 24/7.

Yes, we do. The only other people allowed in the lab are janitors, and they didn't complain. As Ortemy mentioned there are other people passing through the lab - but these are friends of people in lab, who are just curious to see what we are working on or just visiting.

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quote:

Originally posted by Durafei As I said earlier, there are no girls in our class. If I walked by a poster of two men kissing I probably would've felt uncomfortable and probably pissed, but definitely not offended. And I sure as hell would not complain.

I would complain... because not many people would like to see 2 guys kissing while they're working, but I know a lot of people (male and female) would love to see 2 girls kissing. In this society, you either love vagina, or you're gay. I've got no problem with either one, but I'd still prefer the females...

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quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Serb I would complain... because not many people would like to see 2 guys kissing while they're working

He said that the only people who ever actually work in the lab are guys - anyone else would just be a visitor. So how does that analogy apply to this situation?

Also, I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up yet, but I was just thinking: If people who regularly use a lab decide to put a picture up that you think is inappropriate, don't you think the mature thing to do would be to talk to those people about how you think it's inappropriate, and ask them to take it down, rather than "tattle" to the university authorities?

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quote:

Originally posted by jdjd i see that poster around campus but it dont last too long in one spot... what she finds OFFENSIVE is that she is probably too unattractive to be in a picture like that, so she doesnt want anybody else looking at those girls.. to that girl: taking that poster down wont make you any more attractive sorry

thats the only true point anyone has said in this discussion

the university just cares about its reputation and doesnt want trouble, who cares if the 20 guys had a right to put it up, if people are going to complain (even if its unjust) theyre gonna force them to take it down so they dont get in any trouble, thats the bottom line.

as for the rest of you people arguing, its like trying to prove that the colour red is better then green, you can make as many points as u want but its not gonna mean anything

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i wonder whhat this fugly girl would do if she was at our ryerson frosh week...got alotta extremely sexually active women there who kiss each other for kicks.....


EDIT: the poster discussed in this thread is artistic in nature and not pornographic.

there is no nudity/semi-nudity

it is a PG pic...maybe shes under 13..hmmm


art cannot be deemed as offensive....if it were, why isnt she complaining bout michealangelo's painting of man trying to reach out and touch God??it could be seriously deemed offencive since God is depicted with a face there and nobody knows how God looks..besides...teh man is absolutely naked

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