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Originally posted by whiskers rap would also be a great genre if it wasn't for all the black people, right?

No...if it weren't for all the wankstas.

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http://www.garageband.com/artist/sunburn

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Originally posted by paranoik0 I just didn't understand one thing: if they're all the same cheesy crap, why divide in two categories?

to differentiate the cheesy crap that's pompous and haughty from the cheesy crap that's just plain bad.

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Originally posted by whiskers rap would also be a great genre if it wasn't for all the black people, right?

No, rap would be a great genre if it weren't for all the posturing, self-righteousnous, and attitude.

Besides, you're trying to compare race to the idealistic epithets of a subcultural social tribe. Don't.

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Originally posted by Ishkur No, rap would be a great genre if it weren't for all the posturing, self-righteousnous, and attitude. Besides, you're trying to compare race to the idealistic epithets of a subcultural social tribe. Don't.

you sound smart, but would you care to explain in PLAIN ENGLISH, what do hippies have to do with goa being a bad genre?

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I think alot of people should listen to what Ishkur says.

He's not here to bash taste...he's just telling it how it is.

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http://www.garageband.com/artist/sunburn

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Originally posted by DJ Sunburn I think alot of people should listen to what Ishkur says. He's not here to bash taste...he's just telling it how it is.

and i think a lot of people should have their own opinions

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Originally posted by Icesotope

word, i thought of that a while ago, but i've been dragged into a little flame war and kinda hijacked the thread myself

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while we're at it,

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http://www.youtube.com/mezzir

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Originally posted by mezzir while we're at it,

thank you, BIZNITCH

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Originally posted by Ishkur Also, I really hate breakdowns. Why are they even there? A lot of tracks I really like up until the breakdown. Gouryella is a perfect example. What a kickass, awesome track up until 2:45 in the song. Everything after that is ruined by an unnecessarily long breakdown, and a bloated, shmaltzy anthem. Damn it, Ferry!!! Why did you have to go and ruin a good trance track like that?

As I've said before, I agree with a lot of your philosophy on edm. However, this quote right here shows a rationale for your lack of comprehensive understanding on the whole epic/anthem fiasco. What I'm talking about is sociocultural values that people utilize when appreciating music. Gouryella-Gouryella is the perfect example because it epitomizes what this music movement was all about when it gained a global appeal and how its bastardization has gotten us to where we are today. You see, European trance stands out in the edm world for being based on strict notions of structure and tonality. These restricting concepts are very Western, and unlike most edm and pop music from contemporary times,it also causes the music to lack any funk or soul. The music is driven by a linear force, as opposed to the circular structure of other kinds of music from our days. You might not appreciate the structure of 8-16-32 whatever buildup breakdown etc. in Gouryella because it is indeed kind of reactionary and very limiting, but the fact is that without the breakdown Gouryella is not Gouryella, which leads me to talk about these cultural values.

Have you ever been to Holland? Gouryella smells, tastes and looks Dutch in every possible way. The melody, the harmonic pattern, the structure, the bassline, the buildup, the breakdown: All the components of the track are based on a Dutch ethos in the context of globalization and European integration. I could bet my life that a track like this would had never been made in a place like Kansas City or Vancouver or Rio de Janeiro. I could really go into detail explaining how the process that led to what you now call epic or anthem or whatever is based on very Dutch ideals adapted from what they imported from Europe and the world (the universal mvt. spawned by Detroit-Chicago-acid house-UK's second summer of love-german trance-the goa influence etc). You can even go back to colonial history and study how the Dutch preferred to import foreign cultures and incorporate universalist ideals into their very unique culture than to export a pure form of their own to the countries that they colonized.The way in which the Dutch have historically imported cultural elements and applied their pragmatic idealism along with their 'unfunky' northern European gouda nature(which also gives us a nice analogy of trance with the best cheese in the world) resulted in a process of transculturation that gave us Dutch trance.


I'm a classically trained musician, and I always enjoy analyzing the technicalities within the structure of music. I never seriously listened to anything but classical music up until 1998 when I accidentally discovered Dutch trance, even if I had been to many raves with music that I couldn't really relate to. I always hated formulaic music, I never understood rock or pop. But when I heard Magik 1 it simply struck me as the most revolutionary thing since western art music split up into minimalism and serialism in the 60s. I loved how these producers were working within structure, which just seemed so natural to me as it was dance music. This is what gavottes, guigues, minuets and sarabandes were in 18th century France and Germany and what the Waltz was in 19th century Austria. Strictly structured European dance music that borrowed many many elements from high Western art and whose massive popularity led to an eventual conflict between the pretentious and the pop elements, resulting in its subsequent bastardization. The greatest common factor in this kind of music such as the melody and its harmonic backup are very minimal and arranged through a process that is subtle in its linear complexity. Gouryella-Gouryella is a mindblowing piece of briliiantly constructed music as an artform, most of the stuff that Ferry Corsten plays nowadays is not (who in my opinion does not deserve as much credit for Gouryella as Tiesto does, but that's just my personal prejudice).

German/UK/Belgian trance are based on similar overlapping and contrasting ideals, but i'd rather not delve into that right now since it's not really relevant.

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Well, see, this is where we differ. To me, they're ALL cheesy crap. In fact, I would say that System F/Rank 1 are cheesies. I can stomach Alice Deejay before Rank 1. At least Better Off Alone doesn't have me impatiently tapping my foot and checking my watch all the time (get on with it already!!! It's been two bloody minutes! Where the fuck is the beat and the lead synth!??!?).

I like a tastefully done breakdown like the one in Gouryella because it gives the music an extra edge in its linear development. I don't mind waiting for it because it is done with class and significant artistic value. Since my main concern is with music and not dancing, I don't have a problem with it taking so long. Attention span in music appreciation is another issue though. I do hate breakdowns that are self-gratifying and pompous like Out of the Blue or the horrid Ferry Corsten remix of Barber's Adagio. Well-done breakdowns can add an extra incentive because they can successfully induce the trance sensation in the dancefloor. This is another musical element that is derived from a Western notion: The use of deceptive cadences and the creation of harmonic and rhythmic tension with precise timing is what made Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms et. al. so amazing. This is the principal factor that makes good trance (production and especially dj-wise) so great in my books: the intelligent use of timing within that structure.

Man i love tranceaddict but some people here have to come down off of their high horses. Alot of people her talk shit soooo bad. Classics are and will always be personal to the individual. Since for most people thier "classics" remind them of their first parties, first trance track that they absolutely fell in love with.

for the record.... for and angel is a classic...


by your defenition, Ishkur, no trance should be classic, since electronic music is only about 20 years old. thats barely enough time for a car to be considered a classic. All it takes for a classic track to be formed is for one person to get so drawn into the track that they are hooked..... that special technique, synth, sample or whatever it may be.


actually im listning to a track right now that im going to hereby deem one of my classics. mike dragon - infinity 2001 (fridge vs vectrex mix)
the bagpipes are a great idea....


Music isnt a science, its an art form, no one on here is almighty enough to say that anyting is horrible, cheesy, crappy and such. thats their opinion, and it doesnt matter how long you have listened to trance, or how many music degrees you have, or how long you have been spinning, its still just an opinion. and is no better than mine or anyone elses.

So if you think your smarter than everyone here music wise, keep it too yourself. it doesnt benefit anyone here. i get really sick of flame wars as it ruis the whole idea of mesage boards and just turns them into a waste of time.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?