quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 It doesn't take much to know that America is more free than Europe.

Firstly Europe isn't governed by one set of rules. Even in the UK there are differnt rules for Scotland and England and Wales. So a huge genralisation like that that doesn't make much sence.

Secondly I seriously doubt you know very much about the rule of law in ANY country other than your own so never mind the whole of Europe.

Thirdly whats your definition of freedom?

Simply dogmaticly and nationalisticly spouting "our democracys best" is a heap of crap. Be you even think the US was the first to be democratic.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Be you even think the US was the first to be democratic.

Umm...in terms of modern Western democracy, yeah! About the time we were writing our Constitution, Europe was just getting around to dumping the governing power of their monarchies.

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Eh No


Edit: "Ancient Athens, the world's first democracy, managed to practice direct democracy with an assembly that may have numbered as many as 5,000 to 6,000 persons--perhaps the maximum number that can physically gather in one place and practice direct democracy."

Source
The US Govenment Website

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm

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quote:

Originally posted by 3xx3r7 Apparently you haven't been to other countries. I think that medical system in US is pure abomination. Yes it has the best technology, but have you been at doctor's office lately. It takes you five hours before you get out of there for having just a regular check-up. Please, and I implore you, please, don't tell what is the lack of freedom is? Especially in this area. You are not the one to decide, cause you haven't lived in the country with socialized medicine. I lived in Ukraine before I came to US. You know what. American medical system sucks plain ass. period. If I come to office in Ukraine I would be served as soon as possible with the same, if not better quality. Man, you really should travel more, instead of sitting on this large island. And yeah, listen to other world news sources as well, instead of CNN, MSNBC, or *insert your biased news source here*.

No, plain and simple America has the best doctors, the best medicine, and the best technology. Why? Because it's form of goverment creates the opurtunity for the most powerfull companies, technologies, and industries that can ever be created. I am fine with my low taxes(compared to european taxes) and top of the line health care for my family, thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen No, plain and simple America has the best doctors, the best medicine, and the best technology

That'll be why Cuba has less AIDS then?

Best if you can afford it. What if you can't get a job?

"If you are poor, or Cuban, there is no fee, but there is space for a relative in a dormitory or nearby room."

<<< Note poor OR Cuban

So a Cuban goes to the US gets ill result no treatment, American in Cuba falls ill and can't pay, gets it for free.


"Americans could perhaps consider quietly, what Cuba, starved, cheated and lied about, but not on the ropes, can do for its own and other peoples, yet the USA fights its working and poor peoples with all the might of its failed, rigid capitalist system?"

Link



Quote from a Cuban but if you gonna base you grounds for freedom on medical care you could say Cuba is more free than the US. Which it isn't. And again your nationalistic "ours is best" genralisations show a thought process based upon tribalism alone. Which to me seems a not very high level to be operating at.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dervish That'll be why Cuba has less AIDS then?

Actually it's because Cuba has no repsect for human rights so they took everyone who had HIV and forced sent them off to AIDS sanitariums... It's not because of quality healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by mps242 Actually it's because Cuba has no repsect for human rights so they took everyone who had HIV and forced sent them off to AIDS sanitariums... It's not because of quality healthcare.

Firstly wheres your evidence?

Secondly

"Since 1995, the Cuba AIDS Project has been a non-political, USA based humanitarian organization operating in support of HIV/ AIDS patients and their families in Cuba. The Cuba AIDS Project is an advocate of humane, dignified treatment of all HIV/AIDS patients and their families worldwide but focuses on Cuban HIV/AIDS patients as its mission.The Cuba AIDS Project applauds the management and treatment the Cuban healthcare system provides to HIV/AIDS patients in Cuba."

Source

Note the words "US Based" and "The Cuba AIDS Project applauds the management and treatment the Cuban healthcare system provides to HIV/AIDS patients in Cuba" hardly forcing them into anywhere is it?

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quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Eh No Edit: "Ancient Athens, the world's first democracy, managed to practice direct democracy with an assembly that may have numbered as many as 5,000 to 6,000 persons--perhaps the maximum number that can physically gather in one place and practice direct democracy."

As I said before, I'll say it again - with respect to today's modern Western democracy, the US was first. It was the first (and only) place in the world where a clean slate was given to educated peoples, upon which they built an entirely new system of government based upon ideas that had previously existed only in theory. Locke and Rousseau were instrumental in many of these theories, and once the American system was locked in place, many of the new "radical" ideas of self-governance worked their way into Europe.

What you quoted was about Athens' direct democracy, which was nothing like the representative democracies that we have today, either in spirit, governance, or law.

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Well firstly if your "Western"(which you've yet to tell me in which way is differnt) democracy is so FUNDAMENTALLY differnt to the ancient greeks then how come it's on the US goverment website on the page called defining democracy. Yes there is the differnce between direct and representative. But 1. the idea is the same and 2. is due to the size of the nation involved and 3. is it any better(given that it's the citizens not the representatives who vote)?

Secondly is a county where most of the people vote for Gore and Bush gets in even Democratic?

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Also would you view the nation which up until relativly recently didn't let people vote based on the colour of thier skin democratic at that point?

Edit:
FYI

Play particular attention to section "3 - Representative Government:-
In England, Edward the First, in 1295, "

and

"The roots of democracy and freedom for all "western" democracies are planted in the rich history of Britain beginning with the Magna Carta. "

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Last edited by Dervish on Apr-09-2004 at 06:08

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish Secondly is a county where most of the people vote for Gore and Bush gets in even Democratic?

Well, it's a democratic republic.

But anyway, the electorial college system is a great system where American citizens can indirectly vote for the president which keeps the power of minority rule, A basic principal in American Government.

Yes but thier votes don't directly vote for the president.

Edit:
Also is a system where this happens not a bit ludacrus?

"The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution does not require that electors be completely free to act as they choose and therefore, political parties may extract pledges from electors to vote for the parties' nominees. Some state laws provide that so-called "faithless electors" may be subject to fines or may be disqualified for casting an invalid vote and be replaced by a substitute elector. The Supreme Court has not specifically ruled on the question of whether pledges and penalties for failure to vote as pledged may be enforced under the Constitution. No elector has ever been prosecuted for failing to vote as pledged."

So depending on which state you vote in your vote will effectivly be delt with differntly. And the "voter"(college I mean) might not have a choice. <<< Now that is dumb. Sorry by voter I mean elector.

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Last edited by Dervish on Apr-09-2004 at 06:47