quote:

Originally posted by Shakka It's become too humerous to try and reason with you. You want them shown because you want to manipulate people's emotions by parading dead bodies in front of them, because you think it will lead to your desired end, which is no war. You've just admitted to wanting to use the pictures for your own personal/political gain. Pot meet Kettle. As for moving to China and North Korea--I find it laughable. You're trying to exercise your right of freedom to see everything whenever you want. Fine, demand all you want. I'm for free-speech, but I'm also for knowing when to show a little class, decorum and respect. I think our time and energy is better spent debating more important issues. This one is silly, IMHO.

The whole point is the press should be allowed to take those types of pictures and public should be able to draw their own conclusions. I might view them proof that this is a bad war and waste of life. You might look at them as proof that our troops need to be recognized for their courageous acts and willingness to sacrifice their lives for our country. Either way the government has no right to preemptively censor free speech because it's not in their self interest.

Oh as far political gain goes the Press has right to report what's going on, last time I checked they are not a political entity. However the White House is and their blocking of photos is unequivocally political. I'm sorry to hear that you feel debating the right to free speech as a silly waste of time and energy.

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GIGANTIC CUNT

the person taking the photos wasn't a member of the press

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow The whole point is the press should be allowed to take those types of pictures and public should be able to draw their own conclusions. I might view them proof that this is a bad war and waste of life. You might look at them as proof that our troops need to be recognized for their courageous acts and willingness to sacrifice their lives for our country. Either way the government has no right to preemptively censor free speech because it's not in their self interest. Oh as far political gain goes the Press has right to report what's going on, last time I checked they are not a political entity. However the White House is and their blocking of photos is unequivocally political. I'm sorry to hear that you feel debating the right to free speech as a silly waste of time and energy.

Well who's free speech is being violated? The dead soldiers who can't talk? I don't see it as a free speech issue. Tell you what--you call up the families of the deceased and ask them if they mind you parading their dead loved ones pictures around in your efforts to stop the war. If they agree, then I have no issue with you. Otherwise, I see it as nothing more than you invading the lives of people who have lost someone to use their sorrow/loss to further your own political agenda. Like I said, have some class, show some respect. You claim that you don't want more people to die, yet you want to take advantage of death to push your own beliefs.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You claim that you don't want more people to die, yet you want to take advantage of death to push your own beliefs.

ffs, if it wasn't for death, this war shouldn't be "as bad". the government tries to hide it. we criticeze them for it, cause it's against some of our basic belifs "free speech". how's that taking adventage of people's death

or you mean we use this to push our belifs of free speech? yeah, you are right... sorry about that

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Well who's free speech is being violated? The dead soldiers who can't talk? I don't see it as a free speech issue. Tell you what--you call up the families of the deceased and ask them if they mind you parading their dead loved ones pictures around in your efforts to stop the war. If they agree, then I have no issue with you. Otherwise, I see it as nothing more than you invading the lives of people who have lost someone to use their sorrow/loss to further your own political agenda.

When did anyone ask the soldiers for their consent to imbed journalist and camera crews with them on their march to Baghdad? Maybe the administration wanted the cameras rolling to capture the victory on film for propaganda? Have the families petition the government to ban these photos or did the administration read their minds? Since they're public employees funded with tax payers money I feel we are entitled to see these photos. Next time Bush wants complete privacy he should raise his own money to hire mercenaries to fight his secret war.

quote:

Like I said, have some class, show some respect. You claim that you don't want more people to die, yet you want to take advantage of death to push your own beliefs.

I'm not the pro-war guy you are. They wouldn't be dead if there were more people like me who stood up against the war. I don't need dead soldiers to argue my right to freedom of speech, but you seem to need them to silence people opposed to the war.

Ps wasn't it you who said war isn't about death?

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GIGANTIC CUNT

Last edited by igottaknow on Jun-11-2004 at 20:17

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil the person taking the photos wasn't a member of the press

your right, but if your anti-war it's not in your best interest to recognize that.
in order to fuel your end the debate the idea is to marginalize the specifics of the event in question and propose that a more sinister plot was involved in keeping the information of the deaths from the public (which it never was).

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo your right, but if your anti-war it's not in your best interest to recognize that. in order to fuel your end the debate the idea is to marginalize the specifics of the event in question and propose that a more sinister plot was involved in keeping the information of the deaths from the public (which it never was).

The Press also didn't take the pictures at Abu Gharib. What difference does it make who took the pictures? BTW, they were taken by a civilian contractor, because the Press wasn't given access, and she felt a personal moral obligation (free speech duh). If this person was paid by the democratic party to use them as campaign material then yes you would have a case that they were political. So what's your point genius?

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GIGANTIC CUNT

Last edited by igottaknow on Jun-11-2004 at 20:26

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow The Press also didn't take the pictures at Abu Gharib. What difference does it make who took the pictures? BTW, they were taken by a civilian contractor, because the Press wasn't given access, and she felt a personal moral obligation (free speech duh). If this person was paid by the democratic party to use them as campaign material then yes you would have a case that they were political. So what's your point genius?

neil and i were talking about the the caskets.

there is no free speech at abu graib. its a prison.

i suggest you crawl back into your warm and cozy world. its way too dangerous out here for you.

BTW, the funeral this morning was the most moving i have ever seen.
i'll remember it for the rest of my life.
we should all be so lucky to be remembered like that.
America honors it's dead as good or better than any one.
with respect, dignity, and honor we remember them for the moment for most...as for the others, blessed free speech will continue to reign supreme.

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Ps wasn't it you who said war isn't about death?

Yes I did, yet you continue to try to say otherwise. I have continuously said that war is not about death, war is not about who can kill the most people. I guess you've been too busy watching Rambo movies and don't think it could possibly see what's really going on. Death happens in war. Only an idiot would try to say otherwise. But to try and say that people go to war simply for the sake of gratuitious carnage is absurd.

Lucky for you there are brave soldiers who are willing to put themselves in harms way for the sake of you, who doesn't think anything is worth standing up for and defending. Lucky for you there are people who voluntarily sacrifice themselves to defend the very freedoms you claim deprivation of. I'm tired of arguing with you. I'm hitting ignore now. It's the weekend.

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Originally posted by Shakka Lucky for you there are brave soldiers who are willing to put themselves in harms way for the sake of you, who doesn't think anything is worth standing up for and defending. Lucky for you there are people who voluntarily sacrifice themselves to defend the very freedoms you claim deprivation of.

That means a lot coming from a Chickenhawk who sends others to die doing your dirty work. Why don't you flap on over to your nearest military recruiter this weekend, they'll make a man out of you.

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GIGANTIC CUNT

Last edited by igottaknow on Jun-11-2004 at 23:08

quote:

Originally posted by igottaknow Why don't you flap on over to your nearest military recruiter this weekend, they'll make a man out of you.

is there a reason why you won't do the same?