did anyone see the live debate just then?

howard did worse than i thought he would.

Howard 33% Latham 67%

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Interesting debate last night, good to watch Howard squirm for a change

I think the debate really showed Howard as he truly is. Tired, old, lacking enthusiasm, running out of new ideas. He's lied so many times, it's all starting to come back to him and not a moment too soon. Watching the debate last night was like watching a man get painted into a corner.

I just can't understand how people can believe him, or even take him seriously.

Not that I'm suggesting any other politician is markedly different. I've always maintained that no matter who we vote for, a politician will be elected. With that in mind though, I think Latham will be a good change for Australia. Something different from the nasty, divisive politics we've come to expect from Howard. In 20 years time I think we'll look back on the last few years with sad regret.

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Agreed.

I thought Mark Latham performed very well in the debate. There were a couple of instances where he wasn't really decisive (taxes mainly) but he was very strong on education, health and national security (surprisingly!).

I though he was right on the money when he said "Australia's interests lie in our own region and we will be concentrating on security in our own country and south-east asia first"
--->paraphrasing.

The thing that was quite clear to me was the clear divide between Labor and the coalition. Kim Beasley really didn't provide a good alternative to Howard last election in terms of different policies and different ideas, but i think Mark Latham is definitely trying some new things this time around.

* Scrapping 25% increase in HECS
* Putting in measures to increases the bulk billing rate. My mother is a GP, so she has had long conversations with me on this issue and she strongly believes that it is the way to go. I am inclined to agree with her as she has far more experience than me
* Tax breaks for middle-income families
* Superannuation policy which was accepted by Howard in parliament

My mind was made up long before the election was announced, but i am still taking a strong interest in the campaign.

quote:

Originally posted by webmeister In 20 years time I think we'll look back on the last few years with sad regret.

Far from regret, more with gratitude... What howard is doing now is in the best interest of the Majority of Australia...Key word being majority. You cant expect him to please the minority. And the next election will prove that it has been the majority that he has been making the decisions for

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Oh, life is bigger ,It's bigger than you,And you are not me,The lengths that I will go to, The distance in your eyes ,Oh no, I've said too much, I set it up

That's me in the corner, That's me in the spotlight, I'm Losing my religion, Trying to keep up with you ,And I don't know if I can do it, Oh no, I've said too much,I haven't said enough, I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing, I think I thought I saw you try.

But that was just a dream, That was just a dream, But that was just a dream, Try, cry, why try? That was just a dream ,Just a dream, just a dream, Dream

nah i think howard will win because Australia wants a strong leader at present. We dont want radical change, times are too uncertain. Howard hasnt acted in the interests of a lot of people, especially with the whole Iraq thing. I cant beleive how much of a non-issue it really is for people. Its the whole reason i cant vote liberal this election.

But I think people will ignore that and vote liberal, just cos its too uncertain to vote in someone like Latham.

Normally it would be easy, i'd walk in an tick liberal - but im screwed as to waht to do this election.

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I'm no fan of johnny but how can you be happy with what latham delivered?

Every question was answered with a " we have a good plan and some good strategies" answer. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, he didn't even answer alot of the questions.

I heard Neil Mitchell this morning saying that the whole thing was a joke because by labours demand, once a question was asked it could not be pushed further. So when Mark or Johnny dodged answers they couldn't insist on a direct answer.

Let's face facts, it's a lot easier to say, "we wouldn't do that" then to be the people responsible for making decisions.

I'm almost keen to vote labour just to see how funny it will be when they run the country in it's current social climate internationally.

I'm keen to see latham kiss bush's arse like any australian prime minister has always done and will always do. It's all good to talk tough but when 20 million people depend on a rock solid relationship with the biggest economic/ military/ democratic country in the world, you better hope you have real pretty lips!

Liberals policies are pretty pathetic though so maybe i might just get to watch the above... Either way we are screwed

I thought he outlined strategies for:

* Health, particularly Medicare - plan already announced
* Education - Labor's plan hs already been anounced
* National Security - gave us an idea of the direction that he would go if he won government. More of a focus on domestic and regional security
* Economy/taxes - planned tax breaks for middle-income families etc, this has just been anounced in the past week or two i think.

You can hardly deliver and discuss detailed strategies in a half an hour debate (or was it an hour?) Anyway........

I thought he did a good job of outlining their strategies. I really do think Latham is trying something different this time. I don't understand how people can say that he doesn't have any real ideas/plans, when he has announced all these different plans for education, economy etc recently.

Wasn't it Mark Latham's idea about reforms to parliament superannuation that John Howard agreed to and then passed?


P.S. HOWARD.....
* War on Iraq & Weapons of Mass Destruction (hmm...where are they?)
* Children Overboard
* Failure to ratify Kyoto Protocol, despite ever-growing environmental threats
* Sale of Telstra
* Raising HECS by 25% and increasing full-fee places to 25%
* Ethanol debacle with Manildra & Howard's brother
* and there are many more i have forgotten....

AUSTRALIANS HAVE SHORT MEMORIES

Lil Johnny

I dunno what lathams policies are, and what he says always seems to be changing. At least with johnny i know exactly whats gonna happen. Plus i reckon the country has only got stronger over the last 8 years or so. We are actually a strong country compared to the labour debt days.

*Note: Just like to add I dont particularly like either of them, I just prefer the lib government as a whole. Probably because I go to a private school, and im a capitalist pig

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quote:

Originally posted by Paulie Far from regret, more with gratitude... What howard is doing now is in the best interest of the Majority of Australia...Key word being majority. You cant expect him to please the minority. And the next election will prove that it has been the majority that he has been making the decisions for

I don't understand how 25% increases in HECS, more funding for rich private schools at the expense of cash-strapped public schools, destabilising Medicare, wasted resources on a failed conquest of a Middle Eastern country when the real threat is obviously much closer to home, enshrining discrimination in law (gay marriage etc), tax breaks for rich people or making Australia more at risk of terrorist attack benefits the majority of Australians.

Please explain this to me

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quote:

Originally posted by Paulie /me waits for pro labour bragi and webmeister to feed us their propoganda.

Thanks for the pidgeon holing It's cozy here in my little corner, so why don't you get out of your BMW^H^H^HNorth Shore Holden and join us for a fire-side sing-a-long, where all us pinko-lefties are free

Shall we play point by point, or go for the long-ass posts that noone reads?

First point: At any stage, were more than 50% of the population FOR the war in IRAQ? [where's the majority then?]

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I'm running! I'm running! I'm running! ... I'm naked!

quote:

Originally posted by bragi Thanks for the pidgeon holing It's cozy here in my little corner, so why don't you get out of your BMW^H^H^HNorth Shore Holden and join us for a fire-side sing-a-long, where all us pinko-lefties are free Shall we play point by point, or go for the long-ass posts that noone reads? First point: At any stage, were more than 50% of the population FOR the war in IRAQ? [where's the majority then?]

At which stage wasnt it?

___________________
Oh, life is bigger ,It's bigger than you,And you are not me,The lengths that I will go to, The distance in your eyes ,Oh no, I've said too much, I set it up

That's me in the corner, That's me in the spotlight, I'm Losing my religion, Trying to keep up with you ,And I don't know if I can do it, Oh no, I've said too much,I haven't said enough, I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing, I think I thought I saw you try.

But that was just a dream, That was just a dream, But that was just a dream, Try, cry, why try? That was just a dream ,Just a dream, just a dream, Dream

Im going to vote for the liberals for sure. I wouldnt take too much notice of that debate because howard always gets beaten in those things but wins the elections. i wouldnt read too much into that stupid thing anyway. Funny thing was latham may have won based upon some randoms who "apparently" were undecided (not likely), but all the phone in polls put howard ahead 65% and that was with 55,000 phone in callers, not some bums sitting in a studio pressing buttons for fun.

There is no way i want someone running this country the way latham speaks, his somewhat violent past and his front bench have no idea what the hell is going on. You just need to watch one session of question time to see the libs have it all over them.

I didnt watch much of the debate but i dont think i heard either one answer any question with a straight answer. They just seemed to repeat the same thing over and over and confuse people by going round in circles around specific details about policies etc.

One thing i took away was this. Latham is trying too hard to appeal to everyone and make himself out to be true blue, aussie bush tucker mate. Offering tax cuts across the board. Thats the oldest trick in the book so whats new. Labour is known for creating high interest rates when in power, so like latham pointed out many people have big debts to pay off so they are going to ease the pressure by offering tax cuts, hence more money for the struggling family BUT...interest rates go up, the more money those struggling families have to pay in interest on there morgages so the tax cuts account for nothing in the end.

But then again i read today that the greens wanted to legalize recreational drug use so i might vote for them then

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