Throughout the day, a steady trickle of firefighters and rescue workers carried body bags from the piles of wreckage to refrigerated trucks that were parked in several places around the 16-acre site.

One worker who had tunneled into the debris said he had found the remains of people strapped into what seemed to be airplane seats. Another, in one of the most searing discoveries among the ruins, found the body of a flight attendant, her hands bound.

While no survivors were found by late in the evening, the rescuers continued to operate on the assumption that, given the right circumstances, people could still be alive somewhere in the rubble.

Working in the tangle of concrete and steel from the shattered buildings, they found wallets, luggage, blackened computer keyboards and shards of furniture. Sometimes they found a body, but simply marked it and burrowed further into the wet wreckage.

"There is a window in which people might still be alive, and they want to concentrate on getting to them," said Dr. James Boston, who was supervising one of the temporary morgues scattered around the devastation. "So the workers are passing by bodies in the rubble and moving on."
Heart-Rending Discoveries as Digging Continues in Lower Manhattan


The "official" story stated that jet fuel melted the WTC to collapse. If they want us to believe that then how come luggage and seats were found? Because they want you to believe their truth than the obvious truth and anyone who questions the "official" story is in support of the terrorists like the late Tim Osman.

Foxes reporting on the state of the henhouse.

___________________

quote:

National Security Experts Speak Out: 9/11 Commission Falls Short Date: September 13, 2004 To The Congress of The United States: The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks upon the United States ended its report stating that "We look forward to a national debate on the merits of what we have recommended, and we will participate vigorously in that debate." In this spirit, we the undersigned wish to bring to the attention of the Congress and the people of the United States what we believe are serious shortcomings in the report and its recommendations. We thus call upon Congress to refrain from narrow political considerations and to apply brakes to the race to implement the commission recommendations. It is not too late for Congress to break with the practice of limiting testimony to that from politicians and top-layer career bureaucrats-many with personal reputations to defend and institutional equities to protect. Instead, use this unique opportunity to introduce salutary reform, an opportunity that must not be squandered by politically driven haste. Omission is one of the major flaws in the Commission’s report. We are aware of significant issues and cases that were duly reported to the commission by those of us with direct knowledge, but somehow escaped attention. Serious problems and shortcomings within government agencies likewise were reported to the Commission but were not included in the report. The report simply does not get at key problems within the intelligence, aviation security, and law enforcement communities. The omission of such serious and applicable issues and information by itself renders the report flawed, and casts doubt on the validity of many of its recommendations. We believe that one of the primary purposes of the Commission was to establish accountability; that to do so is essential to understanding the failures that led to 9/11, and to prescribe needed changes. However, the Commission in its report holds no one accountable, stating instead "our aim has not been to assign individual blame". That is to play the political game, and it shows that the goal of achieving unanimity overrode one of the primary purposes of this Commission’s establishment. When calling for accountability, we are referring not to quasi-innocent mistakes caused by "lack of imagination" or brought about by ordinary "human error". Rather, we refer to intentional actions or inaction by individuals responsible for our national security, actions or inaction dictated by motives other than the security of the people of the United States. The report deliberately ignores officials and civil servants who were, and still are, clearly negligent and/or derelict in their duties to the nation. If these individuals are protected rather than held accountable, the mindset that enabled 9/11 will persist, no matter how many layers of bureaucracy are added, and no matter how much money is poured into the agencies. Character counts. Personal integrity, courage, and professionalism make the difference. Only a commission bent on holding no one responsible and reaching unanimity could have missed that. We understand, as do most Americans, that one of our greatest strengths in defending against terrorism is the dedication and resourcefulness of those individuals who work on the frontlines. Even before the Commission began its work, many honest and patriotic individuals from various agencies came forward with information and warnings regarding terrorism-related issues and serious problems within our intelligence and aviation security agencies. If it were not for these individuals, much of what we know today of significant issues and facts surrounding 9/11 would have remained in the dark. These "whistleblowers" were able to put the safety of the American people above their own careers and jobs, even though they had reason to suspect that the deck was stacked against them. Sadly, it was. Retaliation took many forms: some were ostracized; others were put under formal or informal gag orders; some were fired. The commission has neither acknowledged their contribution nor faced up to the urgent need to protect such patriots against retaliation by the many bureaucrats who tend to give absolute priority to saving face and protecting their own careers. The Commission did emphasize that barriers to the flow of information were a primary cause for wasting opportunities to prevent the tragedy. But it skipped a basic truth. Secrecy enforced by repression threatens national security as much as bureaucratic turf fights. It sustains vulnerability to terrorism caused by government breakdowns. Reforms will be paper tigers without a safe channel for whistleblowers to keep them honest in practice. It is unrealistic to expect that government workers will defend the public, if they can't defend themselves. Profiles in Courage are the exception, not the rule. Unfortunately, current whistleblower rights are a cruel trap and magnet for cynicism. The Whistleblower Protection Act has turned into an efficient way to finish whistleblowers off by endorsing termination. No government workers have access to jury trials like Congress enacted for corporate workers after the Enron/MCI debacles. Government workers need genuine, enforceable rights just as much to protect America's families, as corporate workers do to protect America's investments. It will take congressional leadership to fill this hole in the 9/11 Commission's recommendations. The Commission, with its incomplete report of "facts and circumstances", intentional avoidance of assigning accountability, and disregard for the knowledge, expertise and experience of those who actually do the job, has now set about pressuring our Congress and our nation to hastily implement all its recommendations. While we do not intend to imply that all recommendations of this report are flawed, we assert that the Commission’s list of recommendations does not include many urgently needed fixes, and further, we argue that some of their recommendations, such as the creation of an ‘intelligence czar’, and haphazard increases in intelligence budgets, will lead to increases in the complexity and confusion of an already complex and highly bureaucratic system. Congress has been hearing not only from the commissioners but from a bevy of other career politicians, very few of whom have worked in the intelligence community, and from top-layer bureaucrats, many with vested interests in saving face and avoiding accountability. Congress has not included the voices of the people working within the intelligence and broader national security communities who deal with the real issues and problems day-after-day and who possess the needed expertise and experience-in short, those who not only do the job but are conscientious enough to stick their necks out in pointing to the impediments they experience in trying to do it effectively. We the undersigned, who have worked within various government agencies (FBI, CIA, FAA, DIA, Customs) responsible for national security and public safety, call upon you in Congress to include the voices of those with first-hand knowledge and expertise in the important issues at hand. We stand ready to do our part. Respectfully, 1. Costello, Edward J. Jr., Former Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI 2. Cole, John M., Former Veteran Intelligence Operations Specialist, FBI 3. Conrad, David "Mark", Retired Agent in Charge, Internal Affairs, U.S. Customs 4. Dew, Rosemary N., Former Supervisory Special Agent, Counterterrorism & Counterintelligence, FBI 5. Dzakovic, Bogdan, Former Red Team Leader, FAA 6. Edmonds, Sibel D., Former Language Specialist, FBI 7. Elson, Steve, Retired Navy Seal & Former Special Agent, FAA & US Navy 8. Forbes, David, Aviation, Logistics and Govt. Security Analysts, BoydForbes, Inc., 9. Goodman, Melvin A., Former Senior Analyst/ Division Manager, CIA; Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy 10. Graf, Mark, Former Security Supervisor, Planner, & Derivative Classifier, Department of Energy 11. Graham, Gilbert M., Retired Special Agent, Counterintelligence, FBI 12. Kleiman, Diane, Former Special Agent, US Customs 13. Kwiatkowski, Karen U., Lt. Col. USAF (ret.), Veteran Policy Analyst-DoD 14. Larkin, Lynne A., Former Operation Officer, CIA 15. MacMichael, David, Former Senior Estimates Officer, CIA 16. McGovern, Raymond L., Former Analyst, CIA 17. Pahle, Theodore J., Retired Senior Intelligence Officer, DIA 18. Sarshar, Behrooz, Retired Language Specialist, FBI 19. Sullivan, Brian F., Retired Special Agent & Risk Management Specialist, FAA 20. Tortorich, Larry J., Retired US Naval Officer, US Navy & Dept. of Homeland Security/TSA 21. Turner, Jane A., Retired Special Agent, FBI 22. Vincent, John B., Retired Special Agent, Counterterrorism, FBI 23. Whitehurst, Dr. Fred, Retired Supervisory Special Agent/Laboratory Forensic Examiner, FBI 24. Wright, Ann, Col. US Army (ret.); and Former Foreign Service officer 25. Zipoli, Matthew J., Special Response Team (SRT) Officer, DOE CC: Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Chairman Pat Roberts & Vice Chairman John D. Rockefeller Senate Committee on the Judiciary, Chairman Orrin G. Hatch & Ranking Democratic Member Patrick Leahy Senate Committee on Armed Services, Chairman John Warner & Ranking Member Carl Levin Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs, Chairman Susan Collins & Ranking Member Joseph Lieberman House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Chairman Porter J. Goss & Ranking Member Jane Harman House Committee on the Judiciary, Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr. & Ranking Member John Conyers House Armed Services Committee, Chairman Duncan Hunter & Ranking Member Ike Skelton House Committee on Government Reform, Chairman Tom Davis & Ranking Member Henry A. Waxman House Select Committee on Homeland Security, Chairman Christopher Cox & Ranking Member Jim Turner Senator Charles Grassley http://ny911truth.org/articles/secu...s_speak_out.htm

C'mon dude, those guys aren't engineers! Those amateurs haven't a clue what they're talking about lol.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

i wonder if that list is as good as the "engineer" and architect list that colonel shat all over?

interesting to see shaolin backing their claims, whereas government employees that disagree with shaolin are merely part of the conspiracy. that old selective scepticism...

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i wonder if that list is as good as the "engineer" and architect list that colonel shat all over? interesting to see shaolin backing their claims, whereas government employees that disagree with shaolin are merely part of the conspiracy. that old selective scepticism...

LOL, what list? And show me where I backed their claims? Those are my claims goddamit! It's called plagiarism, and you know that! And why are you so interested in the crispy dude's butt all of a sudden? Someones been obsessing over 'bums' a lot lately .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, what list?

culorut and trancer have posted long lists of engineers that supposedly support the controlled demo theory. and colonel looked them up and none of them are certified engineers. i just thought it was pretty funny

quote:

And show me where I backed their claims? Those are my claims goddamit! It's called plagiarism, and you know that!

hahaha! fair enough. the FBI have been stalking, bugging your phonecalls and house, and they're convinced! now they're repeating your opinions as if they are your own. i agree, thats just untennable!

quote:

And why are you so interested in the crispy dude's butt all of a sudden? Someones been obsessing over 'bums' a lot lately .

because his crispy butt is the most lovely and experienced butt we have on TA in the whole 9/11 debate

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN hahaha! fair enough. the FBI have been stalking, bugging your phonecalls and house, and they're convinced! now they're repeating your opinions as if they are your own. i agree, thats just untennable!

I fucking told you didn't I!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN because his crispy butt is the most lovely and experienced butt we have on TA in the whole 9/11 debate

LOL, that didn't come out right man . He sounds like eveyones buttbuddy or something, no offense crispy .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i wonder if that list is as good as the "engineer" and architect list that colonel shat all over? interesting to see shaolin backing their claims, whereas government employees that disagree with shaolin are merely part of the conspiracy. that old selective scepticism...

Oddly enough that list contains much more than just "engineers". Former FBI, CIA and military officials surely know a thing or two about cover ups.

I think that your friend colonel cannot even help you on this one. You should do some of the leg work for yourself, relying on others to prove your point is pretty weak.

A real pity though, you are trying hard and are still failing miserably at even coming close to becoming convincing on this topic.

I wonder if anyone can doubt the credentials of Lynn Margulis. She just went public (8/27/07) regarding the 9/11 cover up and it is gathering a lot of attention around the globe.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/...s.html#Margulis

Lynn Margulis, AB, MS, PhD – Distinguished University Professor in the Department of Geosciences, University of Massachusetts - Amherst. Elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1983. Former Chair, National Academy of Science's Space Science Board Committee on Planetary Biology and Chemical Evolution. Recipient of the National Medal of Science, America's highest honor for scientific achievement, in 1999, presented by President William J. Clinton. The Library of Congress, Washington, DC, announced in 1998 that it will permanently archive Dr. Margulis' papers. President of Sigma Xi, the scientific research society, from 2005 - 2006. Recipient of the Proctor Prize for scientific achievement in 1999 from Sigma Xi. Prior to moving to the University of Massachusetts, Dr. Margulis was a faculty member at Boston University for 22 years. Her publications span a wide-range of scientific topics, and include original contributions to cell biology and microbial evolution. Dr. Margulis is best known for contributions to evolution, especially the theory of symbiogenesis. For more information on Dr. Margulis' career, please visit http://www.chelseagreen.com/authors/LynnMargulis and http://www.sciencewriters.org.

Author of over 130 scientific works and numerous books. Recent publications include Mind, Life, and Universe (2007 with Eduardo Punset), Dazzle Gradually: Reflections on the Nature of Nature (2007, co-authored with Dorion Sagan), Symbiotic Planet: A New Look at Evolution (1998), Acquiring Genomes: A Theory of the Origins of Species (2002, with Dorion Sagan), Early Life: Evolution on the Precambrian Earth (2002, second edition with Michael F. Dolan), Luminous Fish: Tales of Science and Love (2006), What is Sex? (1997, with Dorion Sagan), What is Life? (1995, with Dorion Sagan), Mystery Dance: On the Evolution of Human Sexuality (1991, with Dorion Sagan), Microcosmos: Four Billion Years of Evolution From Our Microbial Ancestors (1986, with Dorion Sagan), and Origins of Sex: Three Billion Years of Genetic Recombination (1986, with Dorion Sagan), Kingdoms and Domains: Illustrated Guide to the Phyla of Life on Earth (4th edition, co-authored by Michael J. Chapman, Academic Press, 2008 in press), Symbiosis in Cell Evolution (second edition, 1993).

* Statement to this website 8/27/07: "The 9/11 tragedy is the most successful and most perverse publicity stunt in the history of public relations. I arrive at this conclusion largely as the result of the research and clear writing by David Ray Griffin in his fabulous books about 9/11. I first met him when he was a speaker at a scholarly conference unrelated to 9/11. He immediately impressed me as a brilliant, outstanding philosopher - theologian - author, a Whiteheadian scholar motivated by an intense curiosity to know everything possible about the world.

On the plane home and for the next two days I did little else but read Griffin’s first book about 9/11, The New Pearl Harbor. From there I went on to read his even more disturbing account of the bogus 9/11 Commission Report, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions, which provides overwhelming evidence that the official story is contradictory, incomplete, and unbelievable.

It is clear to me that David Ray Griffin and his fellow critics are correct: the 9/11 "new Pearl Harbor" was planned in astonishing detail and carried out through the efforts of a sophisticated and large network of operatives. It was more complex and far more successful than the Allende assassination, the US bombing of our own ship the "Maine" that began the Spanish-American war (and brought us Guam, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines), the Reichstag fire that was used to justify the suspension of most civil liberties in Germany in the 1930's, and even Operation Himmler, which was used by Germany to justify the invasion of Poland, which started World War II.

Whoever is responsible for bringing to grizzly fruition this new false-flag operation, which has been used to justify the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as unprecedented assaults on research, education, and civil liberties, must be perversely proud of their efficient handiwork. Certainly, 19 young Arab men and a man in a cave 7,000 miles away, no matter the level of their anger, could not have masterminded and carried out 9/11: the most effective television commercial in the history of Western civilization.

I suggest that those of us aware and concerned demand that the glaringly erroneous official account of 9/11 be dismissed as a fraud and a new, thorough, and impartial investigation be undertaken."

# Bio: http://www.chelseagreen.com/authors/LynnMargulis

quote:

Originally posted by culorut Oddly enough that list contains much more than just "engineers". Former FBI, CIA and military officials surely know a thing or two about cover ups.

yes, yes they do. but they cant fucking prove anything regarding this topic so who gives a fuck you ignorant teenager? i mean really. oh, such and such thinks its a conspiracy? that's evidence!!

you fucking clown.

quote:

I think that your friend colonel cannot even help you on this one. You should do some of the leg work for yourself, relying on others to prove your point is pretty weak.

says the guy that just cuts and pastes long lists of engineers he hasnt even bothered to research himself, because he is content with the bullshit he finds on any webstie as long as it has "troof" in the URL.

ignorant, hypocritical, academic philistine.

___________________

Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on Aug-28-2007 at 05:22

quote:

Dr. Margulis is best known for contributions to evolution, especially the theory of symbiogenesis.

i can see why Margulis' opinion is so important in the world of civil engineering

___________________

the Dutch appear to know at least a part of what went on that tragic day



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTxNhHKQuJM