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stamper
The Accountant



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA

quote:
Originally posted by Tranceilvania



in following seconds


LOL I love that pic... classic!!

Old Post Oct-05-2004 15:10  Australia
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narcism
faithless fangirl



Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Let go of my mind

quote:
Originally posted by matt_a
I guess you just answered why Latham is so much more popular amoungst the young people of Australia than the older generations. Because they are ignorant. Wisdom comes with age doesn't it. hahaha, nice one


Has it ever crossed your mind that they may agree with certain labour policies, such as not allowing rich kids who are dumb to buy a law/medicine degree???

Old Post Oct-05-2004 15:27  Malta
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Renegade
____________/



Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

quote:
Originally posted by Philby
quick delete this thread before renegade sees it


Haha, damn...

Anyway, I don't want to get too deeply involved in this as I'm pretty disillusioned with Australian politics at the moment (neither candidate should be filling anyone with a great deal of hope about the future of the country) but I just genuinely don't understand how there are so many people here willing to vote for Howard. I'm not necessarily saying that Latham is any better, but at least think about and ask yourself whether your really going to be better off under another three years of Liberal government and then consider the alternatives. Don't just vote for Howard because you can't find a reason not to (you aren't looking hard enough!) or because you don't like the alternatives.

Now I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that most of the people are aged between 18 and 25 (or predominantly under 30 at least) so this is going to be aimed at all of you. Firstly, while it is true that the Howard government's macro-economic management has been very good (most key economic indicators are where they should be) don't automatically assume that this means you are going to see any direct benefit from it. While unemployment has come down under the Howard government (though it's starting to rise again), 42% of all new jobs created have been casual jobs (source). So while more people are employed these days, more people are also "underemployed" than ever before (75% of people in casual work want to work full-time but can't - source - and our "casualisation rate" is the second highest in the OECD). What this means for us young people is that there aren't as many good jobs out there as the unemployment figures might otherwise lead us to believe - when we walk out into the big, wide world with our university degrees, the likelihood of us having to settle for a McJob for a substantial period of time before entering full-time work is significantly higher than ever before (we're twice as likely as even the yanks - where the McJob was born - to be employed casually or part-time).

Oh and speaking of university degrees, are we really comfortable with accepting John Howard's 25% HECS increase? A nation is built on the quality of its education system and if John Howard makes it even more difficult for the average student to attain a university degree then the entire nation (not just us) suffers. Quite apart from discouraging young people from studying, the HECS increase is just going to add to the level of personal debt in a nation that's already crippled by it under the current government (source).

Oh and should we have the good fortune to obtain a university degree and stumble, against the odds, into a decent, full-time job, you can still forget about owning a home. House prices have risen by more than a third over the past three years, are at record levels relative to real household income, are predominantly being fueled by speculative buying (40% of all houses are being purchased to let) and are overvalued by 29% according to Goldman Sachs (source). Fucking great if you're a wealthy investment banker, but not so great if you're a young couple looking to buy a home. The problem - apart from making housing inaccessible to those who most need it - is that this isn't going to last. The Howard government should have done more to take the sting out the bubble while the opportunity was still there and now - when the property market does regulate itself back to more "normal" price equilibrium - a lot of people (rich and poor alike) are going to be stung by it.

Now I'm not an economist but as young people I think that these are the sorts of things we should be thinking about more so than the general macro-economic figures that are flying around at the moment. Put simply, I want you to look at the webpages of all the major parties (not just the ALP and the Libs) and ask "Are these guys really going to do what's best by me?" before you decide on who you vote for. I could be wrong here, but unless you're incredibly wealthy for your age, I can't see how the Liberals can possibly best represent your interests.

Oh and that's just economic policy. I haven't even touched on the Liberals' dispicable human rights record, their badly conceived foreign policies (Iraq? Marshmallows? Pre-Emptive strikes on any of the Asian countries that we've successfully alienated over the past 8 years? What the fuck?), their complete disdain for international law and treaties, their backwards approach to social issues (esp. abortion, gay rights etc.), their xenophobic immigration and refugee policies, their assault on civil liberties, their complete disinterest in environmental issues (until the election year of course ) or their misguided love for the most dangerously incompetent and corrupt US president in living memory..... but I guess that's another topic altogether, huh?

EDIT: - For what it's worth, I don't really care about the house of reps, but please vote for the Dems in the senate. Even you Liberal voters might want to consider it - if the Dems don't get the votes, then the Greens may hold the balance of power there and I'm sure that none of you would want that.... right?


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Last edited by Renegade on Oct-05-2004 at 16:04

Old Post Oct-05-2004 15:57  Australia
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matt_a
... Do To You ...



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Sydney

quote:
Originally posted by narcism
Has it ever crossed your mind that they may agree with certain labour policies, such as not allowing rich kids who are dumb to buy a law/medicine degree???


FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go

Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.

Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance

*Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*


___________________

Old Post Oct-05-2004 15:58  Australia
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Nic
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia

quote:
Originally posted by matt_a
FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go

Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.

Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance

*Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*


hahaha i love it, and i'm not *that* drunk

Old Post Oct-05-2004 16:03  Australia
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A.J.
Back from the dead



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney
Thumbs up

Very nice post, Renegade.

Old Post Oct-05-2004 16:50  Australia
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Tranceilvania
indoctrinated PSY addict



Registered: May 2001
Location: In a doof

quote:
Originally posted by matt_a
FFS I cant believe I have to explain this again. Ok here we go

Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.

Has it ever crossed yor mind that you should read the rest of the posts also, and read the explanation i have already made to a drunk Nic. If you didn't then that is just plain ignorance my friend. I do not think that people are ignorant if they vote for Latham or Howard, the only people I think are ignorant are those that vote Socialist Alliance

*Waits to have to explain self again in a condescending mannor*


Whats wrong with the socialist alliance? I may not agree with all their opinions but certainly most of them that i have met are the smartest and well informed ppl i ever seen. Definately more cluey than the Libs.
I agree with most points Renagade made on politics but i still can't forgive Democrats when they cut the deal with Lib party to pass GST in the senate.

PS. Hey James looked everywhere for u at GK but could not see

Old Post Oct-05-2004 17:32  Australia
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batemanscott
i <3 my GTI



Registered: May 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Renegade, i'm intrigued by your opinions and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

Old Post Oct-05-2004 21:27  Australia
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eRRaTiK
g0t milk?



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada

great to see some researched interest in the future of this here "lucky country".


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Old Post Oct-06-2004 02:16  Australia
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nicknack
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia

really when it comes down to it your only one vote and you can't make a difference


___________________

Old Post Oct-06-2004 06:02  Australia
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matt_a
... Do To You ...



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Sydney

quote:
Originally posted by Tranceilvania
Whats wrong with the socialist alliance? I may not agree with all their opinions but certainly most of them that i have met are the smartest and well informed ppl i ever seen. Definately more cluey than the Libs.
I agree with most points Renagade made on politics but i still can't forgive Democrats when they cut the deal with Lib party to pass GST in the senate.

PS. Hey James looked everywhere for u at GK but could not see


James looked everywhere for me??


___________________

Old Post Oct-06-2004 07:01  Australia
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Romp
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia

quote:
Tranceilvania said that young aussies are ignorant, as it had been sugested that young aussies were voting for howard, and in his oppinion that is ignorance. But according to the polls more young people are voting for Latham, so by him saying young people are ignorant means that the ignorant vote for Latham.


Well it is true that many young people are ignorant. That does not mean that those voting for Latham are ignorant. There are ignorant people voting for all sides of politics.

It is, however, in the self interest of the vast majority of young people to vote for Labor or the Greens. Young people are almost all low income earners, students or unemployed. If you are in any of those groups there is no reason for you to be voting for Howard. The only young people who should really be voting for Liberal are the really rich and those who are ideologically right wing. I would say that group makes up about 5-10% of young people. Anyone else voting for Howard is probably doing so through ignorance (often because thats who their parentes vote/voted for).

The liberals plan to add 25% more to university fees. For anyone that goes to university that is going to put you thousands of dollars out of pocket. Full fee paying places took away university spots for the rest of us and made it harder for those who cant afford to pay full fees to get into the course they want to get in to, while allowing some to jump the queue. The GST hurt us. Tax cuts didnt help us. Low interest rates dont help us, in fact they have contributed to the property boom which means if you live in Sydney and Melbourne, your rent has gone up and you can forget about buying a house in the next 10 yrs, esp in a nice area.

Howard knows that young people dont really matter when it comes to voting, because they make up a small percentage of the voting population but also because most young people dont really care about politics and thats why he does nothing for us.

Old Post Oct-06-2004 07:40  Australia
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Australia > but i like john howard!
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