quote:

Originally posted by erdega Serbs moved into turkish occupied land? That's a news to me.

Well, when did the Serbs move to Bosnia then?

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Do you think I am supposed to take interviews of jailed soldiers and generals seriously in a controlled propaganda piece something which they can't prove physically or even theoratically? But still no mention of hundreds of civilians butchered around Srebrenica. You may find this all of this humorous and ego boosting but I find it personal and very serious.

Fine, if you don't like admissions of guilt from those responsible than read the Bosnian Serb government's official report. I'll post it again for the sake of posterity:

http://www.domovina.net/srebrenica/...nica_report.doc

http://www.domovina.net/srebrenica/..._report_add.pdf

In the report the Serbs state:

• Bosnian Serb forces planned a three-stage operation: the attack on the town, the separation of women and children and the execution of the men;
  
• military and police units, as well as special units of the interior ministry, took part in the murders;
  
• four new graves are original sites while the other 28 are sites where bodies were reburied to hide traces of the massacre;
  
• the commission has data on 7,779 people missing in Srebrenica and has so far identified 1,332 of them.
  

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, when did the Serbs move to Bosnia then?

Is that the fine revisionist history they are teaching you in croatia?
My father's family is from bosnia and they lived there since ever they can trace their genes.
Still I don't want this thread to turn into a history debate either.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Fine, if you don't like admissions of guilt from those responsible than read the Bosnian Serb government's official report. I'll post it again for the sake of posterity: http://www.domovina.net/srebrenica/...nica_report.doc [urlhttp://www.domovina.net/srebrenica/page_006/rs_final_srebrenica_report_add.pdf]/url] In the report the Serbs state: Bosnian Serb forces planned a three-stage operation: the attack on the town, the separation of women and children and the execution of the men; military and police units, as well as special units of the interior ministry, took part in the murders; four new graves are original sites while the other 28 are sites where bodies were reburied to hide traces of the massacre; the commission has data on 7,779 people missing in Srebrenica and has so far identified 1,332 of them. Hell they're still finding mass graves in 2004 as the Serb gov't is finally coming clean and reporting them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3674693.stm

What's your point ?
Your so called document is very shortened version of the original document I gave a full link to and I am not sure it's even real, certainly manipulated.
Of course when it appears on a muslim website funded by jew George Soros , it's even more suspicious.
Of course they separated men from women , cause these men butchered hundreds of civilians around srebrenica and then recorded some of it.
But most of them resisted, weomen and children were sent to Tuzla.

quote:

Originally posted by erdega What's your point ? Your so called document is very shortened version of the original document I gave a full link to and I am not sure it's even real, certainly manipulated. Of course when it appears on a muslim website funded by jew George Soros , it's even more suspicious.

Ummm no it's the official final report issued by the commission. Your document was the preliminary report. It was such crap, however, that the Serbs dismissed the commission chair for blocking investigations into the Massacre. The final reports findings are quite authentic as verified by the Bosnian Serb government.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/e....srebrenica.ap/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3999985.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3743176.stm

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.a...srebrenica&Cr1=

They all say the same thing:

quote:

Report on Srebrenica massacre published BANJA LUKA, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) - Bosnian Serb forces killed more than 7,000 Muslim men and boys at Srebrenica, a Bosnian Serb commission conceded Thursday in its final report on the 1995 massacre. Bosnian Muslim officials claim that up to 8,000 men and boys were killed at Srebrenica in July 1995, when Serb troops overran the UN-declared safe zone in Europe's worst massacre of civilians since the Second World War. Although the report gave a lower estimate of the number of victims, the panel's vice-president, Smail Cekic, told The Associated Press the figure was not final. "That is hard to achieve because differences in sources," Cekic said. "That is still an open question." The Bosnian Serb government formed the commission of judges and lawyers last year to investigate who was responsible. Its final report includes information on the location of 34 mass grave where some of the victims are presumed to have been buried, Cekic said. So far, the remains of about 18,000 victims from different ethnic groups who died in the 1992-95 war have been exhumed from more than 300 mass graves across the country. UN and Muslim experts have found the remains of about 5,000 victims from mass graves in eastern Bosnia and discover new remains every month. The fate of the others is still unknown. Nearly 1,200 Srebrenica victims have been identified through DNA analysis. Although Bosnian Serbs long have been blamed for the massacre, it was not until this past June - following the Srebrenica commission's preliminary report - that Serb officials acknowledged for the first time that their security forces carried out the slaughter. Bosnian Serb wartime leader Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic, his top general, are wanted for genocide and crimes against humanity for the Srebrenica killings and other atrocities. Karadzic is believed to be hiding in the half of Bosnia controlled by the Serbs, while Mladic is thought to be hiding in Serbia. Both were indicted in 1995 by the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague, Netherlands, for their alleged roles in the Srebrenica massacre and for the Serbs' three-year siege of Sarajevo during the war. Cekic said the final report was sent to the government of the Bosnian Serb half of the country for evaluation and approval. The peace agreement that ended the war in Bosnia left the country divided into a Bosnian Serb mini-state and a Muslim-Croat federation. Both have separate governments, police and army and are linked only by joint state institutions. The Bosnian war - which pitted Serbs opposed to Bosnia's independence from the former Yugoslavia against Muslims and Croats backing it - claimed about 260,000 lives and left around 20,000 missing and presumed dead. http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2.../pf-669282.html

The Bosnian Serb government has admitted to the atrocities and has even done so on Serb TV.

quote:

Of course they separated men from women , cause these men butchered hundreds of civilians around srebrenica and then recorded some of it. But most of them resisted, weomen and children were sent to Tuzla.

Your “DNA” argument and claims that everything was “overestimated” is several years old. As of November of 2004, 5000 bodies have been found and 1200 have been identified by DNA.

___________________
Retro ...

So preliminary report is more than 100 pages longer and goes into every detail based on facts.
Your doc is way short, way subjective, peppered with emotional language, short on facts
that can't be proven anyway and authored in a very recognizable jewish zionist media trademarks of lies and manipulations. Once again, if the truth is so clear to you, why lie and mahipulate?

Really who are you to talk about Bosnia , really?

Last edited by erdega on Dec-08-2004 at 00:14

A destruction of any religious establishments is a sickening primitive act. The utter disregard and lack of respect and tolerance for other’s culture is an utter failure of humanity. The culprits of such lowly actions should be punished in the severest manner. I’m saddened to see a part of Serbian heritage disrespected in such callous manner but please do bring to light the true face of the real butchers of the Balkans.
Tearing Down the Past

The rejection of guilt a grave complex that plagues a slew of Serbs in the modern day; half a century later you’ll still be sure to find individuals in Germany who’d refute the holocaust. Some face reality sooner or later, some succumb to the not so quite rudimentary propaganda designed for demented minds. It’s an interesting technique to churn out chic balderdash from the Serbian corners of the world wide web in order to pool the wool over someone’s eyes, but mostly perhaps not to prick at one’s own grimy conscience.
Reasoning with individuals who suffer from a major lack of a rational perspective is not my intent. I would just like to state to those who attempt to reason with Serbian radicalism that it’s crucial not to place all eggs in the same basket. Quarter of a million Bosnians were victims of the Serbian barbarism in the Balkans, but never forget that about 30% of Sarajevo’s resistance fighters were Serbs who put their lives on the line for a multicultural Bosnia & Herzegovina. Sarajevo’s resistance was lead by Jovan Divljak the Serbian General of the BiH army. The sole reason why Serbian fundamentalists will never be able to enjoy a day in an ethnically cleansed Sarajevo is predominantly thanks to the special police force unit of Dragan Vikic. I doubt there would be any articles on the Serbian network on a man who stood up against Milosevic’s tyranny with a unit that consisted of a majority of Serbs at the beginning of the aggressions on Bosnia and Herzegovina.
It’s not a question of ethnicity, the chief paradigm here is humanism. A concept a few know more about than Bernard-Henri Levy, one of the most respected political philosophers of the modern day, a staunch advocate of ethics and justice, a man who really needs no introduction in intellectual circles. Here’s just a brief interiview with the Frenchman during the war:

quote:

------What should be done, then, to save Sarajevo? BHL: What should be done is what Bosnian President Alija Izetbegovic asks. He does not ask for U.S. Marines or UN troops. Bosnia has enough soldiers to defend Sarajevo. He wants bombing of the artillery batteries that surround Sarajevo. Absent that, he wants the kind of weapons necessary to defend the city from artillery and tank barrages. He wants the world to recognize that the arms embargo on the Bosnian government is tragically unfair because it penalizes the people of Sarajevo. --- But isn't this a war among competing nationalisms, with each group trying to set up its exclusive nation-state? Isn't the conflict in the former Yugoslavia, as you have said, a war between weak and strong nationalisms? BHL: I think this is true between the Croats, the weaker nationalism, and the Serbs, the stronger. The situation in Sarajevo is different. Izetbegovic is not a nationalist. Sarajevo is a cosmopolitan city where different nations have lived together for five centuries. ----- The Bosnian Serbs claim that Izetbegovic is trying to create a Muslim-dominated state in Bosnia. BHL: No. There was one document from 1970, which the Serbs often cite, called "The Islamic Declaration." Izetbegovic has stated his disagreement with the document many times, and since he became president his policy has been demonstrably against the establishment of an Islamic state. The government of Sarajevo is mixed, with a strict parity of the Muslim, Croat and Serb ministers. There are six of each . The second in command of the Bosnian governments army is a Serb. Thirty percent of the population fighting to defend Sarajevo are Serbs. And they have confidence in Izetbegovic. The reality today in Sarajevo speaks for itself .An ethnically mixed population is fighting against Serbian nationalism in Sarajevo, and in the western part of Bosnia-Herzegovina, against Croatian nationalism. In Sarajevo cosmopolitan and tolerant Europe is fighting the specter of the nationalist, populist, chauvinist idea of Europe.

It would be healthy maneuver for some to not restrict their educational resources to a few shady articles in cyber land, there’s a plethora of literature from neutral outsiders, and there are plenty of counts of those who witnessed the atrocities on the front lines. If you need a break from theology, I went through Janine di Giovanni’s ‘The quick and the dead’, last night, it was quite a refreshing read…

At the end of it all let’s hope rationalism and objectivity prevail, but until the day that we’ll be able to amalgamate 'serb' and 'admission of guilt' in one sentence there will be those three magic words that will save you a headache: Carla Del Ponte.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by erdega So preliminary report is more than 100 pages longer and goes into every detail based on facts.

LOL I actually read the preliminary report. Unfortunately I lack the capability to delve into its sources due to language constraints but its explanations are quite ludicrous. Muslims went into "circle walks" which explains the bodies everywhere? They were so traumatized by Serb superirority that they didn't realise that they themselves were shooting back? They hallucinated everything? Not only are they ludcrous explanations, but that still doesn't explain the fact that 5,000 bodies were dug up of which 1,200 have been identified by DNA and many of the identified were civilians.

quote:

Your doc is way short, way subjective, peppered with emotional language, short on facts that can't be proven anyway and authored in a very recognizable jewish zionist media trademarks of lies and manipulations. Once again, if the truth is so clear to you, why lie and mahipulate?

Haha it's not my document. It's the final report issued by the Bosnian Serb Government.

quote:

Really who are you to talk about Bosnia , really?

I'm God actually. As such I'm fully qualified to talk about whatever I wish since I'm quite omniscient. I'm guessing that you desired a rediculous response to your non-sequitor that hinted at a false appeal to authority.

___________________
Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Is that the fine revisionist history they are teaching you in croatia? My father's family is from bosnia and they lived there since ever they can trace their genes. Still I don't want this thread to turn into a history debate either.

Well, turkish invasions didn't happen in the last 100 years. Look, my grandfather was serbian and his family lived here for like 400 years. But they did come from mainland Serbia after the turkish invasions, as did all the local serbs, not before. It's after the Serbian vassalization by Turkey that many serbs fled to Bosnia as well. When Turkey conquered Bosnia too, more serbs came there but this time not as refugees but as regular immigrants. Look, I've just mentioned that because Shadowwolf implicitely said that Bosnia was populated by serbs prior to Turkish invasions, which is simply not the case.

___________________
1+1=10

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Look, I've just mentioned that because Shadowwolf implicitely said that Bosnia was populated by serbs prior to Turkish invasions, which is simply not the case.

Point of advice: take Shadowolf's comments with as much regard as you would give to a doorknob.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider LOL I actually read the preliminary report. Unfortunately I lack the capability to delve into its sources due to language constraints but its explanations are quite ludicrous. Muslims went into "circle walks" which explains the bodies everywhere? They were so traumatized by Serb superirority that they didn't realise that they themselves were shooting back? They hallucinated everything? Not only are they ludcrous explanations, but that still doesn't explain the fact that 5,000 bodies were dug up of which 1,200 have been identified by DNA and many of the identified were civilians.

you can't grasp anything cause you are jewish media lackey with preconceived notions and no direct knowledge of situation.
How do you justify to your self to promote a report that is barely 30 pages long and peppered with unverifiable statements and very much one sided over a report that is 100 pages longer and goes into excrutiating physical detail?

quote:

Haha it's not my document. It's the final report issued by the Bosnian Serb Government.

That's jewish authored or rather edited document from cnn and other controlled media. I already showed you the real document, however you push this propaganda trick. I am more experienced than that, you won't persuade me or overpower me no matter how much you repeat yourself.

quote:

I'm God actually. As such I'm fully qualified to talk about whatever I wish since I'm quite omniscient. I'm guessing that you desired a rediculous response to your non-sequitor that hinted at a false appeal to authority.

You are just confused as far as this particular subject is concerned and better to admit to it to yourself and find a subject you are familiar with.