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Originally posted by Sand Leaper No, because you obviously are too busy worshipping at the altar of Detroit to see that that it is some of the most pompous, self-indulging and pretentious drivel you'll ever come across. Come to think about it, several of those adjectives can be used about Jeff Mills himself too.

i don't worship the altar of detroit, but all i read in those paragaraphs was praise for the movie, his thoughts on its impact on our society, and how he was inspired by it. basically a bunch of worthless rhetoric, no less than what you see on any other music cd where an artist attempts to speak their mind about something.

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Oh, and Oliver Lieb was disillusioned about the scene in Germany in general, in addition to being disgruntled with his previous partners in Frankfurt. That's why he left.

that may be true. of course, this is what i was talking about :

http://trance.nu/v3/interview_show.php?id=22
how do you feel about the way trance is developing in general the last years?

It gotten too commercial…like everything that becomes big…nothing new is getting big since the people are focused on just one sound…nobody is pushing or supporting new sounds. To me Robert Miles”Children” was the beginning of the end of trance as it was known as something good and inspiring. What they call “Progressive” now - to me sounds pretty much like some minimal Goa Trance…I like to think of more Techno orientated “Trance” which is lately developing and once again is not something completely new, but a good mix of styles that I like…far away from the Pop-Trance!



and no, when he says pop-trance, he's not talking about dj sammy.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil i don't worship the altar of detroit, but all i read in those paragaraphs was praise for the movie, his thoughts on its impact on our society, and how he was inspired by it. basically a bunch of worthless rhetoric, no less than what you see on any other music cd where an artist attempts to speak their mind about something.

I've yet to see worthless rhetoric written as insanely overdone as this. The whole writing just oozes so much highbrow and holier than thou-attitude that it just gets ridiculous in the end. Only in Detroit, people.

I'd dig up the interview where I read about Oliver's disillusion, but it's in german.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper I've yet to see worthless rhetoric written as insanely overdone as this. The whole writing just oozes so much highbrow and holier than thou-attitude that it just gets ridiculous in the end. Only in Detroit, people.

in no way when i read that did i get the impression that jeff mills thinks he's better than me. did you expect him to talk about drive by's and heroin addicts in ebonics? i have like three harthouse albums here where the people who compiled them go on and on and on in the sleeve notes about how harthouse revolutionized this, and how harthouse is a timeless that, and how harthouse is the greatest blah blah blah. that's pretentious.

you know what i think, i think you like to take the general theme of underground resistance, and view any statement by a detroit artist with a pre-existant confirmation bias. pretty much anything jeff mills says will sound pretentious to you. pretentious uptight divas i think you said. it's just three paragraphs on an album nobody cares about, about a movie nobody cares about, and how you come to the ultimate conclusion that jeff mills (or was it derrick may--no, juan atkins right...well some detroit guy definitely huh) is a pretentious snob because of that, i'll never know.

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I'd dig up the interview where I read about Oliver's disillusion, but it's in german.

i don't doubt he was frustrated with the frankfurt scene.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil in no way when i read that did i get the impression that jeff mills thinks he's better than me.

I'll admit that if I didn't have various accounts of Jeff's personality in mind while reading it I wouldn't think so either.

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i have like three harthouse albums here where the people who compiled them go on and on and on in the sleeve notes about how harthouse revolutionized this, and how harthouse is a timeless that, and how harthouse is the greatest blah blah blah. that's pretentious. you know what i think, i think you like to take the general theme of underground resistance, and view any statement by a detroit artist with a pre-existant confirmation bias. pretty much anything jeff mills says will sound pretentious to you. pretentious uptight divas i think you said. it's just three paragraphs on an album nobody cares about, about a movie nobody cares about, and how you come to the ultimate conclusion that jeff mills (or was it derrick may--no, juan atkins right...well some detroit guy definitely huh) is a pretentious snob because of that, i'll never know.

Don't patronize me, I know fully well who the detroit techno heroes are. And I don't think all of UR/Detroit has the same problem either. Juan Atkins and Claude Young for instance are very down to earth and friendly people, even though they have just as much reason to be the exact opposite as some of their colleagues.

Now, just cos you don't go all the way and outright big yourself up like in your example doesn't mean you're not pretentious. You're looking at this purely from an objective point of view, while I'm putting it in context with the way I've seen and heard Jeff interact with other people. I don't think I need to give you any examples, you should know them well enough if you have half the clue you claim to have.

Furthermore, I don't think Jeff is purely an uptight diva. The fact that he put that Dead Or Alive-bootleg on Exhibitionist shows that he has some irony to his work at least. But write ups like this one along with his erm, "exploits" while working only gives me even more of an impression that he needs some ground control.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

call me narrow minded....or whatever.... i dont like techno and i hope it is

nayil: w0rd. Techno is just stupid man.

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Check out Crossfade Collective
Sebastian Zander - Hotel Chaplin
Sebastian Zander - Set Two [Electro/Tech House and Trance of some sort]
Paulo Da Costa - AVGN [Prog. House](128kbps])

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Originally posted by PutBoy Techno is just stupid man.

Yup. And Tiesto is the shit.

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d&b session 20090519
My take on... (various mixes planned, updated when I can be arsed)

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper i hear rumors blah blah blah i saw jeff mills for five minutes blah blah blah

well i guess that's the difference between you and i, you are much quicker to judge someone, and with much less reason and even less evidence. for example, i've been watching conan o'brien every night for the past 3 years. i've seen and heard more of him in the last month than you'll ever see or hear of jeff mills in your lifetime. but i would never say i know what he is like. i'm sure his personal friends and family members would give a much different and more accurate accound of his personality than what we see in public. i see jeff mills no differently.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil well i guess that's the difference between you and i, you are much quicker to judge someone, and with much less reason and even less evidence. for example, i've been watching conan o'brien every night for the past 3 years. i've seen and heard more of him in the last month than you'll ever see or hear of jeff mills in your lifetime. but i would never say i know what he is like. i'm sure his personal friends and family members would give a much different and more accurate accound of his personality than what we see in public. i see jeff mills no differently.

Have you ever seen Conan O Brien in real life or talked to the people who know him and/or have interacted with him?

And either way, I'm not judging anyone. If you have any reports or other types of evidence of what a friendly, down to earth and righteous guy Jeff Mills is (he's obviusly not gonna treat his own friends and family like he does the people he encounters while doing music), do tell. I will gladly re-evaluate my stance. I'm sure he can be friendly and all that while doing music too (I remember he did a gig in the Balkans somewhere for a sandwich), just the vast majority of what I've seen and heard so far says otherwise.

___________________
"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper Have you ever seen Conan O Brien in real life or talked to the people who know him and/or have interacted with him?

not relevant. a 10 minute conversation with jeff mills would give neither you nor anyone you know little or no more insight into his true personality than me watching conan on tv for an hour each night.

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And either way, if you have any accounts or other types of evidence of what a friendly, down to earth and righteous guy Jeff Mills is

i don't, but i never said he was those things.

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Originally posted by Aiwendil not relevant. a 10 minute conversation with jeff mills would give neither you nor anyone you know little or no more insight into his true personality than me watching conan on tv for an hour each night.

Who said anything about "his true personality"? This isn't an in-depth analysis of Jeff Mills' character, it is how he comes across as a person while doing music. You base that on the impression you get when interacting with him and other people who have. Watching someone host a TV show for three years does not apply. Sure, Jeff Mills can be a swell guy for all I know, but there is nothing I've experienced that speaks for it so far.

___________________
"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

Last edited by Sand Leaper on May-01-2005 at 00:57

Nobody listens to techno...