quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog BAHAHAHAHAHA. I have! Part of my job involves industrial relations, and I studied all the new laws when they came out. You can't just fire people for no reason. There is still such a thing as unfair dismissal...at least in this industry. Anyway, I'm over this thread already. I hate politics, because no one is ever going to make the other person see the light. Arguing/discussion is pointless, and just brings about unnecessary anger. I'll just say this: you enjoy your life, whinging about the law and how you'd be earning 200K a year if they changed it, and I'll just ignore whatever they do and get on with actually working my way towards a 200K salary.

I suggest before you disappear into the woodwork you go back over our posts and read what we wrote. I for one know it's illegal to sack some people BUT the whole point is that if you are one of those people who are sacked you have to take it to a court of law which is very expensive so most wouldn't be able to do it. There are also new legal reasons why employers can sack people.

There is a guy on ITM who works in this specific area . He's put up some excellent information if you are interested in finding out more.

Btw If someone is stealing from you maybe calling the police might be an option.

Another Btw . I'm one of those small business people you are so concerned about.

The current liberal government is a complete disgrace to everything the party was founded on, after the successive elections based on quasi-nationalistic events, IR laws, draconian anti-terror laws, following the US into stupid wars and a complete inability to apologise for anything, (even when they're wrong) I predict their demise at the next election to be an epic loss.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog At the moment, workers have far more power than employers.

wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Mate, I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm guessing around 20-21, since you seem to play computer games all day, and never work.

wow, its amazing how many thoroughly unsupported comments you have in here. no mate, im almost 30 and have plenty of experience in the private sector. both through personal experience and research. i certainly dont play computer games all day (mores the pity).

so, yeah. wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Once you work full time you will realise that the amount of people out to screw their bosses is ridiculous. On the other hand, it's not in a bosses' best interest to screw their workers, because that leads to strikes, legal action and loss of money.

wow, arrogance and naivete efficiently bundled together. good for you. do you have ANY knowledge of how the new laws deal with industrial action? no, i didnt think so. strikes are almost completely illegal now. it takes more to strike now than it ever has. not saying thats a bad thing, but dont trot out nonsense to support your ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog My sister and I both work in the building industry. I don't know how unions are in other industries, but in in building/construction, they are malicious bastards.

not denying that either. i am in favour of a balanced system. you on the other hand dont seem to appreciate the vast disparity in power in the workplace. if you really did have as much experience that you claim nobody else has, you wouldn't be parroting general bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog The result is that the workers get paid for those two days, while we get sued by our clients for lost time, and therefore lose money, and fuck up our own lives, so don't tell me that Labor handing power back to the unions is a good thing - there's fuck all left to hand back, they already have it all. so don't tell me that Labor handing power back to the unions is a good thing - there's fuck all left to hand back, they already have it all.

this comment alone illustrates your clear lack of knoweldge and/or research into the proposed changes. labor has no interested in handing anything like that back to the unions. honestly, you sound like a poor government advertisement. labor is interested in some more checks and balances, thats all. i think they've found a nice "middle ground" alternative. we'll see after they win.

if these new laws were actually brilliant like you say, and removed the unnecessary impediments to employment, we would see a massive gain in certain sectors of employment. now, you listen to any commentary from the experts (that aren't employed by the govt) and they are saying its not happening.

this idea that workers should have no say in their workplace is kind've undermined by the fact that its the workers that produce all the goods/services these businesses provide. if you dont think they deserve a certain amount of industrial protection then justify it without your anecdotal abuses.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog THIS is my point. If the law were more lax, unscrupulous bosses would fire people left right and centre, but with stricter laws, it allows the workers to screw the fuck out of their bosses. It's a fine line, and the law may never be able to please both parties.

yes, i agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Answer this though - if you're doing your job, and your boss is happy, what reason is there for him to fire you? Huh? It's because people are so fucking lazy that these laws are introduced.

wrong again. there are plenty examples of workers that have been "doing their jobs" who were fired, asked to reapply for the jobs at lower salary rates under the new legislation. bosses as a general rule appreciate the happiness/productivity of their workers as less immediately important than their cost at payday. seen it across all sectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog I often work overtime without being asked, or asking for more money, hell, the other friday I stayed back til 11pm to get shit done. As a result my boss will never fire me, because he knows I work my arse off.

if you have a personal relationship with the person that signs your cheques, then good for you. not all workers have that access nor rapore.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog On the other hand, there are lazy fucks taking ninety minute smokos, stealing stuff etc, then complain when their boss fires them. If they did their fucking job, they wouldn't have to worry about it.

are you really going to make this an argument of worker abuses in the workplace? for every 1 bit of unsubstantiated nonsense from you, i can bring 10 unsubstantiated examples of things working quite differently, or examples in the media that have shown exactly how bosses work these new laws.

anyway, let's keep the rude assumptions to a minimum shall we? you wouldnt like me to make assumptions about your ability to assess legislation because you're only in the building profession would you??

___________________

Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on Aug-01-2007 at 00:53

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog How can you comment on this with any authority if you work in government?

because im smarter than you and have a wealth of experience and research in politics and industrial relations.

___________________

See Beat Blog, I told you to do your research!! and I wasn't just referring to the IR laws

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN wow, arrogance and naivete efficiently bundled together. good for you. do you have ANY knowledge of how the new laws deal with industrial action? no, i didnt think so. strikes are almost completely illegal now. it takes more to strike now than it ever has. not saying thats a bad thing, but dont trot out nonsense to support your ideas.

I apologise, I didn't mean to come across as arrogant, nor belittle anyone else's experience. It's just that usually when I have this discussion (i.e once a week), people with no experience in ANY union industry, let alone building, astound me with their ignorance,so I go out of my way to make it clear to them that my personal experience can disprove their vague assertions. However, I do realise that I'm not the only person with experience in the industry, and I was definitely wrong in assuming you didn't too.

When I said "striking", I didn't mean specifically striking as in train drivers refusing to drive, I was referring to shutdown of building sites.

As I said earlier, unions can shut down our building sites at basically any time (it's easy to come up with an excuse), and there pretty much nothing we can do about it until they decided to re-open it. Sometimes if we ring up and abuse a specific person within the union, they will make sure that the shutdown is prolonged, just to get revenge on the company.

Hence why I say that workers in the building industry have more power than their employers at the moment.

Not in the sense that it's hard for the employer to fire them, because yes, that's gotten easier, but in the sense that the workers as a whole can bring their weight to bear if they want to. It's not as bad as it was in the mid-ninties (think Patrick's shipping debacle), but it's getting better.

See this thread's just drawn me in again, and made you unnecessarily angry pkc, which I apologise for.

Again...I hate discussing politics and law.

___________________
Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

haha, im not angry man! youre not a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, i reserve my anger for them

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog See this thread's just drawn me in again, and made you unnecessarily angry pkc, which I apologise for. Again...I hate discussing politics and law.

why?
you seem to be doing an alright job so far. continue!

___________________
new set online, Summer Journeys

Bwahahaha

I was just driving home and saw some Liberal propaganda billboard that says "Do YOU realise that 70% of Labor's front benchers are ex-union bosses?" (I half expected the bottom to say "well...do you?")

Bahahaha - I wonder if it's even true.

___________________
Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

i only know what i know.

and what i know is this.

i see those adds wheres its some guys saying "My son has less rights with his job than i did in 1947, its not fair"

and then that biatch jumps on and says "your son is safe because he cant take the job without his parents consent...so its all fair"

ummmm fucked.

yeah cool your mum or dad says "i dont think its fair that youll be getting 8 bucks an hour and you could be fired for not shaving" so they dont let you take the job.

the fact is IT IS STILL LEGAL!

___________________
CLICK HERE FOR SOUNDCLOUD

imo.

unions are good. (Of course id say this, my grandfather started the teachers union)

Politicians from the right side for things will always use them as a thing to say "Labor is owned by them blah blah blah"

But in the end SO WHAT?!

Employers will by nature always try to look for the most 'profitable' option.

Employees will always look for what is the most 'comfortable' option.

its a ying yang thing
for the last 16 or so years we have had a guy who is on the side of the 'profitable' for the leader of our country.

'Profitable' has had a real good run. shit is starting to get unfair now.

tbh the only things that count for a bucket of peas are the environment and peace.

___________________
CLICK HERE FOR SOUNDCLOUD

Last edited by Light The Fuse on Aug-01-2007 at 12:38