I have to say that Liquid8 is a scrub that doesn't know what he's talking about and needs to get a life apart from flaming on this forum ;P Other than that nice job with the kick tutorial Dave! It was well worth my time I'd say.

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Just read though this thread... and my god, Liquid are you the biggest wanker or what? Giving shit to Dave because he went to the time and effort to post up a tutorial of which I might add, these forums are sorely lacking in. Incase you didnt realise mate... this is a production forum and the whole point of it is to exchange information about our individual processes. All you've done is said... "your kick is shit... heres a sample of one I ripped from a track" WTF? You moron. You complete ignoramus. Now piss off back to masturbating over your Anjunabeats album and stop pretending that you have even the faintest clue of what you are talking about or even what you are doing here. We need a bouncer on the front door to prevent morons like this from even browsing these forums.

Hehe, another cool reply Aren't you Dave West, logged under another account ? Why being so agressive ?

Ok, first of all, I didn't insult anyone here as you just did So please don't do it again, ok ? And now I'll explain the reason of my comments posted here.

Sure we all appreciate the time Dave spent on this tutorial. But man, this tutorial is just so wrong ! And it looked so weird to me when I've seen this man saying "The sound of the kicks have varied, from light window-tapping to puke hitting the pan of a WC. And now I'm gonna teach you how to make a perfect kick!" I'm really sorry, but his kicks are not pro as well as the advices. I'm wondering where he has learned all this stuff

Heh, in fact there's no universal formula for making a perfect kick. You have to try different options and listen how it sounds.

But oh well, why am I writing all this ? Now you all know how to make perfect kicks

In fact, if Dave's kick sounded pro, I would only thank him for this thread, but as they don't, so I can't.

And now I'm gonna masturbate over my Anjunabeats album

I have seen many "HELP ME, howto make a kick" threads,
and when something like this thread plupps up,
someone like Liquid8 has to ruin it. Insteed of
telling us how unpro Daves kick was, you could
tell us howto make it sound pro, thats why this
thread was started! And if you could not give any advice, just don't post!
Plz continue to help the n00bs with their kicks
insteed of kicking yourself

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Hey ! Axolotyl thanks 4 trying to restore some order!

Ayway getting back to that perfect kick yeh, i use Recycle or Soundforge kick from some one else and bang in an instance i have a nice kick well that is if the construction of the loop does not contain toooo many efect and sampling.

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quote:

Originally posted by Liquid8 Hehe, another cool reply Aren't you Dave West, logged under another account ? Why being so agressive ? Ok, first of all, I didn't insult anyone here as you just did So please don't do it again, ok ? And now I'll explain the reason of my comments posted here. Sure we all appreciate the time Dave spent on this tutorial. But man, this tutorial is just so wrong ! And it looked so weird to me when I've seen this man saying "The sound of the kicks have varied, from light window-tapping to puke hitting the pan of a WC. And now I'm gonna teach you how to make a perfect kick!" I'm really sorry, but his kicks are not pro as well as the advices. I'm wondering where he has learned all this stuff Heh, in fact there's no universal formula for making a perfect kick. You have to try different options and listen how it sounds. But oh well, why am I writing all this ? Now you all know how to make perfect kicks In fact, if Dave's kick sounded pro, I would only thank him for this thread, but as they don't, so I can't. And now I'm gonna masturbate over my Anjunabeats album

Yeah moron, I'm actually Dave West. Get a clue mate.

Why am I getting agressive? Perhaps because people have already tried to politely tell you that your out of line and you didnt take the fucking hint?

OK, so if this tutorial is so wrong, where abouts has it fallen down? Perhaps you can correct some of dave compressor settings or suggest a different method of EQing? Have you analysed daves kick sample and seen what frequencies are lacking?

No you havnt, because you are full of shit.

How do I know this?

Because any producer who has spent the time to even get a kick as half as good as Daves knows how tricky it can be and would never be such a smart arse about it in a post that is intended to help people. A real producer, pro or not, would treat such tips as the sharing of knowledge that they are.

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Last edited by Axolotyl on Jul-14-2005 at 11:38

quote:

Originally posted by Liquid8 Sure we all appreciate the time Dave spent on this tutorial. But man, this tutorial is just so wrong !I'm really sorry, but his kicks are not pro as well as the advices. I'm wondering where he has learned all this stuff

I recognise a lot of the "advices" come from the Dance Music Manual by Rick Snoman. Although Dave West has included more specific settings. His stuff on the parallel compression comes striaght from a sound on sound tutorial. So the guts of the tutorial was right on.

Liquid8, if you think that these industy standard mixing techniques are so wrong why don't you tell us what your approach is? And even better post some examples of your work.

quote:

Originally posted by Liquid8 Sure we all appreciate the time Dave spent on this tutorial. But man, this tutorial is just so wrong !

Imo, there's nothing wrong with the basic way he processes his kicks (eq, compression -> then sent to a group channel to be compressed together with bass). Don't you agree so far? But It's the settings and the source material that makes a huge difference. Dave's settings looked quite drastic to me (like ratio of 8-9, highpass filter on 40Hz). But anyways, I'm sure the tutorial helps beginners to get in the right direction. No point for flaming like that.

unbeleivable

The Kick and Bass must be compressed together.
So create a stereo Group in Cubase or a stereo Bus object in Logic.
Set the kick channel output to that group or bus.

Insert a compressor here. Gain reduction should be -6db.

Threshold: -8db
Attack: 0ms
Release: 80ms
Ratio: 9:1
Knee: hard to soft

Do NOT adjust the make-up gain. Leave it at 0.

The channel fader should be reading -8db with just the kick playing.
Why -8? well you need to produce a mix with an overall output level of -3 to -4db.
When you add in all of the other elements that's what the mix should be.



I got two questions please?

One, by Compressing the Kick and the Bass, you mean sidechaining right? If so, I got Waves C1 which is supposed to be able to activate a sidechain compression, the question is , how?

Again with Waves C1, it doesn't have a "Knee" feauture, does it play an important role, if so, what compressor that is not discontinued would you recommend to get to follow this tutorial.

I'm working with FL Studio so... no Cubase nor Logic.

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Hey. Sidechaining is just a choice effect you can get by compressing the kick and the bass together. It isnt somethign that automaticly happens. Rather, its extreme compression. Think of wide compression as a 6 lane road and tight compression as a 1 lane road. You take the busy traffic from all 6 lanes and force them at the same speed on the 1 lane road. With the wide lane road, you have cars that can pass and get through and you can get congestion (muddyness). With the one lane road, traffic can go both ways, but not at the same time (for obvious reasons :P). The kick comes at the rush hours (morning and evening then morning evening again - 4x4) from the north, and the rest of the time, traffic flows from the south, the bassline. To understand the rise and falls of the compression, think of the traffic as building back up and slowing down (emptying) as the road gets ready to switch directions or has jsut switched directions.

Medium bass+kick compression is similar, but instead of a single lane, its 3 lanes. The 1 lane has been widened to 2 lanes with the same rush hours applying but with the third lane, its dedicated to lighter traffic flowing from the south (or rather the bassline).

Hope this helped show the difference between sidechaining (tight) and the more regular/medium compression .

Cheers,
Zac

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quote:

Originally posted by PDM by Compressing the Kick and the Bass, you mean sidechaining right?

No, I don't mean side-chaining, which is where the effect of the compressor on the is regulated by an input signal. The purpose of compressing the summed kick and bass is to lock them together and to produce a desired level of bass pumping by using the attack parameter.

quote:

Again with Waves C1, it doesn't have a "Knee" feauture, does it play an important role, if so, what compressor that is not discontinued would you recommend to get to follow this tutorial. I'm working with FL Studio so... no Cubase nor Logic.

The Fruity compressor is perfectly adequate for the job as it allows a 0ms attack (if required) and has a hard setting. I've compared the Fruity comp to the Logic one and found the results to be very similar.

Very creative DarkISword. Yeah defo I got that with your example.

Thanks Dave for your feedback.

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