quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot here's a history lesson for ya there little guy. college hasn't done much for you're respect for history, or lack thereof. take from it what you will. i will not get into Vietnam and the mistakes made, here. nor will i ask you to call a random Iraqi National Guardsman or storeowner or stock broker and find out what he thinks about standing up his own country. not here. not now.

One last response to your response. We've had similar confrontations on this forum in the past (and always in circles). As I don't want to hijack this thread, I suggest we knock it off for now.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

You really are going overboard Shaolin, parralleling acts as seen today with American, British invasion of Iraq, and Americans fighting in Vietnam. It's sick and I'm ashamed to say we are citizens of the same country.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sorry it might just be me but I coulda swore Northern Ireland is still in the Kingdom.

Yes it's still part of the UK things are a lot peacefull now, however the IRA have been sucessfull, I don't agree with the tactic's they have employed in the past, I know for certain people have been scared shitless of them in past. The situation in Eire & Northern Ireland is a total different story all togther, the governments both in the Uk & Eire both have cracked down on the IRA, it's not like they have the whole west to operate in.

Al Qaida on the otherhand are a faceless enemy, they could come from one of about 30 countries, they could be taking a holiday, be an asylum seeker, be a real immagrant, or they could actually be born and raised in the UK. Their not an army or a miltary organisation that is something I know for sure.


Thing is though with Northern Ireland it's all died down a lot, about from that Macartney guy who died and the banking heist.

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quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings You really are going overboard Shaolin, parralleling acts as seen today with American, British invasion of Iraq, and Americans fighting in Vietnam. It's sick and I'm ashamed to say we are citizens of the same country.

Ok. You're going to have to elaborate on that one. How am I going overboard?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan Al Qaida on the otherhand are a faceless enemy, they could come from one of about 30 countries, they could be taking a holiday, be an asylum seeker, be a real immagrant, or they could actually be born and raised in the UK. Their not an army or a miltary organisation that is something I know for sure.

They're even more dangerous than that as they are not actually "they"!

IIRC, none of the attacks that followed 9/11 have been proved to be actual al-Qaida attacks. All of them were "linked" to al-Qaida but carried out by separate individual groups. Al-Qaida didn't even come up with the plan to do 9/11, they just provided the funds and personel.

"Al-Qaida" is an ideology, which is why the groups that carried out the attacks often claim to be doing it in the name of al-Qaida. When the government says "linked to al-Qaida" that could mean anything and could simply mean they adhere to the same ideology. Afghanistan was a good place to start and that got rid of the training camps that a lot of these groups had gone to. But thats the problem. It was a shit load of individual groups that went to these camps to get training - all with their own aims and ideas. That is something you never here the governments say cos they need a 'James Bond-style' baddy to focus our attention on. The aim of these groups and al-Qaida is not, as we are told, the destruction of western democracies and our way of life but the overthrow of Middle Easter governments and to replace them with Islamic theocracies. That probably means a great deal of them have no intention of attacking the West. Unfortunately, as we have seen today and in Madrid, there are a significant number who do want to do that and follow in al-Qaida's footsteps. But it is in the governments interests to group them all together and say they all want to destroy our way of life. By grouping them all together I feel that we are making a mistake and not understanding (or at least what they tell us makes them look like they do not understand) the true nature of what is known as al-Qaida is an extremely dangerous mistake...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley The aim of these groups and al-Qaida is not, as we are told, the destruction of western democracies and our way of life but the overthrow of Middle Easter governments and to replace them with Islamic theocracies.

I guess Israel is not part of the "western democracies" you speak about then huh?


Or are they simply an exception to this theory for some X reason or another?

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I believe some of u are arguing over yet to prove facts. Yes there is a "report" that states that the al qaida group is taking responsibility for the acts, but that is yet to be proved. And personally i am still not convinced that 9/11 was also masterminded by al qaida.
I dont agree with these types of actions, but after reading up on the 9/11 attacks, and the so call "Project Northwood", which i do not know if the validity of has been proved, i wouldnt be amazed if this was, note the word, orchastrated(sp?) not executed, by a government or government agency instead of a terrorist attack as PR move for lack of better definition.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX I believe some of u are arguing over yet to prove facts. Yes there is a "report" that states that the al qaida group is taking responsibility for the acts, but that is yet to be proved. And personally i am still not convinced that 9/11 was also masterminded by al qaida. I dont agree with these types of actions, but after reading up on the 9/11 attacks, and the so call "Project Northwood", which i do not know if the validity of has been proved, i wouldnt be amazed if this was, note the word, orchastrated(sp?) not executed, by a government or government agency instead of a terrorist attack as PR move for lack of better definition.

sounds like you suffer from asymetrical skepticism. probably brought on by acute ideological myopia combined, in part, with your mild fear of the unknown.

...or you may have syphilis. there's no telling, really.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ...or you may have syphilis. there's no telling, really.

that might more be it for him. Shit I hate Bush but damn even I wouldn't propose a government orchestration. Good griefs.

I've arrived at the conclusion that no matter what scums like these do there will be those who apologize and rationalize such acts because they are driven with so much hatred of the "imperialists" I was pissed as fuck about Iraq, but I'll be damned if this act could be justified on such grounds. Takes a sub human to appreciate such behavior of those who prostitute a religion to murder and maim in a democratic society, whose people and freedoms they exploit for as one politician remarked an evil means to an evil ends.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

Last edited by NYCTrancefan on Jul-08-2005 at 13:19

Firstly I offer my Condolence's for the families of the innocent dead who have lost there lives in this Terrorist Attack & those responsible receive the correct justice.

As an English citizen, I could see this attack happening ever since we joined forces with the US to fight the Illegal War in Iraq, Yes Illegal as the basis of us going to war was " The Threat of Nuclear War " which turns out to be a complete Lie but that's a complete different issue which has been raised many times before. I Believe in Religion and I believe in Freedom also I believe in Innocence which is currently the main target for terrorist to use as a weapon. I imagine that Terror is never really seen in England due to its well structured governments and law agencies. I imagine 99.9% of English people have never seen a bomb explode in there life's or have ever been in real danger, If it turn this statement round to Iraq then its a complete different story I imagine every Iraq citizen has seen bombs, and witness violence and brutal terrorism everyday of there life's. If a bomb explodes in Iraq it wont reach the local headlines and I cant imagine foreign citizens concerned unless a UK/USA troops died. When the London attack happened yesterday it was Global news in Minutes and I can imagine there will be photos, stories all over the world in newspapers, websites and of course television, The groups responsible will see this as a great victory as Innocence as before quoted has been sacrificed to symbolise these attacks. I do believe there will be arrest's made for this attack but I have to say I don't think this is the last of Al Queda.

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" You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip
through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us will-
ing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert."

Or you could have seen this coming as well with the fact that Abu Hamzah and all these radical Islamic clerics have a comfort zone in London for years to preach their filth on British soil about death to this and death to that, and what a great man bin Laden is, etc. Imagine listening to weekly prayers from these individuals. These radical clerics are intolerant and it's about time people see them for what they are.

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Trance = Heart, Mind, Body and Soul all in 1

Current fav. Global Experience = Madras

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I guess Israel is not part of the "western democracies" you speak about then huh? Or are they simply an exception to this theory for some X reason or another?

Well Israel can also come under "Middle Easter government"

And yes Israel is an exception - whether you like it or not - it is a western democracy but it is also special for the reason I just said - it is in the heart of the Middle East and is seen by Islamists as Muslim land. The 'West' ie N America and Europe are not Muslim land and are not considered as such (I dunno maybe there is some nostalgic old Mullah remenicing over the good ol' days when they rules Spain but I doubt it!)

Also al-Qaida are not part of the Intifada as far as I know