quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij What's the difference? It costs me money and effort and hardware to make my product just like BMW does.

It costs you money and effort to create the original. The rest is a process of copying. However with cars the cost is multiplied by the ammount of units being produced. So to follow your analogy, if you could find a guy on the street who has a BMW, and somehow copy and paste that car without using any new materials or effort, considering you wouldn't have had the money to buy your own straight from the manifacturer, then you're not taking anything from them. If you were going to buy one and decided to copy one instead, then you're taking potential profit, but not in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij Okay let me rephrase: Reasons not to pay for music you like

Personally I see no reason for that either. If I like music, I buy it. But the posts in this thread so far (Ishkur's post to name one) should be enough of a clue of why things aren't that cut and dry. And I think a vast amount of the business needs to realize the positive promotional effect (illegal) downloading has, and instead of trying to combat it (which is futile), try to use it to their advantage.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

i think it's pretty stupid to try and argue this point. i think we all know it's wrong...it really just comes down to whether or not you care. trying to justify it with arguments like "well i don't like it" or "the corporation gets all the profit" don't really seem to valid in my opinion. i mean i think it comes down to something if i may quote a little jane's addiction here:

"well its just a simple fact...when i want something man i don't wanna pay crap!"

hahaha

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Who says I am?

you keep contradicting yourself..

if u dont enjoy it then u need not buy it or download it illegally. why would u download something u dont like?

if u like something, then the artist has done something right by producing it. if they have downloaded their software illegally but they still make good music then the only people who should care are the manufacturers of the software who loose millions because of pirating. if like it then buy it, if u cant find it anywhere to buy then download it, i dont really give a fuck, i would probably do that if i couldnt find a track to download or buy legally. stop whining.

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Originally posted by Aquarian It costs you money and effort to create the original. The rest is a process of copying. However with cars the cost is multiplied by the ammount of units being produced. So to follow your analogy, if you could find a guy on the street who has a BMW, and somehow copy and paste that car without using any new materials or effort, considering you wouldn't have had the money to buy your own straight from the manifacturer, then you're not taking anything from them. If you were going to buy one and decided to copy one instead, then you're taking potential profit, but not in this case.

So BMW sold one car less right? And they didn't gave you permission right?

But i get your point, but i think thats only a benefit for end users.
If i ask u2 to play at my birthday party it will cost me loads, if we do it in a stadium and share the concert and divide the costs everybody is happy.

This applies to music too. The price is a divided one, or did you really think making a tune costs only 1 dollar if i would calculate all the costs for a producer including say a minimum salery?

Now you don't buy one BMW, but a lot of people buy a fraction of the BMW but get the whole package!

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irc.rank-1.com #rank1

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper Personally I see no reason for that either. If I like music, I buy it. But the posts in this thread so far (Ishkur's post to name one) should be enough of a clue of why things aren't that cut and dry. And I think a vast amount of the business needs to realize the positive promotional effect (illegal) downloading has, and instead of trying to combat it (which is futile), try to use it to their advantage.

that post makes alot more sense than ur last ones

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quote:

Originally posted by Benno de Goeij So BMW sold one car less right? And they didn't gave you permission right? But i get your point, but i think thats only a benefit for end users. If i ask u2 to play at my birthday party it will cost me loads, if we do it in a stadium and share the concert and divide the costs everybody is happy. This applies to music too. The price is a divided one, or did you really think making a tune costs only 1 dollar if i would calculate all the costs for a producer including say a minimum salery? Now you don't buy one BMW, but a lot of people buy a fraction of the BMW but get the whole package!

yeah £30,000 wont get u a custom designed one off exclusive car from bmw, itll get you one of millions of identical cars. a bmw is not £30,000 worth of material! the money goes to the designers, production costs, etc etc etc.. just like with music.

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle you keep contradicting yourself.. if u dont enjoy it then u need not buy it or download it illegally. why would u download something u dont like?

Because downloading something is a good way to find out whether I like it or not. Surely that is blatantly obvious?

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

Some artists are going the "Weed" route if you have heard of that crazy project.

This is what I want to see happening. Direct music purchase from the artist him/herself. Some posts so far have pointed out that the middle man blows. Why not start encourging this system or a system like it.

http://www.weedshare.com/

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Lifted from weedshare.com PLAY complete songs up to 3 times free BUY your first Weed files with a free $5 SHARE Weed files and earn money

It's a very good concept. And last time I checked however it was WMA only. However, artists can weedify their files if they get the right paper work and can essentialy become their own label. Promoting their music across the web, AND everytime you buy their song, you have partial rights to it as well. So like the tagline says you could distribute the artists song you like like MAD and actually make some money if people buy it.

That to me seems like the future. We all know file sharing is never going to go away. And many people are screaming back and forth "IT'S ILLEGAL IT'S COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT" or "IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THE CORPERATIONY CORPORATIONS ARE TAKING MOST OF THE MONEY"

I'm frustrated by that kind of bickering, mainly because it reminds me of some dumb classmates of mine back in highschool who did the "I don't download music" as a satus statement, and probably downloaded anyway, or couldn't figure out how.

God. If someone says "It's just wrong!" or "Durr.. corporations!" again, I will just slap them. Virtually of course :P

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Soundcloud

Last edited by wrzonance on Aug-01-2005 at 14:47

benno...what do you think about this?


i've argued on here before that record labels are becoming in a way obselete. i mean other than promotional value, they have no real significance. don't you think aritsts such as yourself could just as easily sell legal mp3 downloads from say an artist website than through a label? sure it might take a lot of initial start up, but once it was running it wouldn't be hard to update and maintain. then you could contract with sites such as beatport on your own if you wanted to allow people to download from those sites as well...so really why the need for the middle man anymore? you would get more of the profit that you deserve and people would feel more like they are supporting the artist and not just some corporation...

EDM artists/djs main source of income is NOT cds or vinyls, their main source of income is gigs = clubs, festivals. I asked Judge Jules one time on his website and that's what he answered.