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Originally posted by Cyrus King Whats this bullshit "protecting your country" crap. What are you protecting the USA from???? WMD's???? This veiled threat has and always will be indoctrinated by this ridiculous administration. Why are the soldiers in Iraq. Please give a coherent and reasonable and REALISTIC answer. So far.. my answer is that they are occupying Iraq.. that is why. and we all know why... becuase the poor iraqi's need to be saved... ahhahahhahahah

Iraq is just another order given by the government and since you are in the army you go because that is your job when you are told to go. Simple as that.

Why are the soldiers in Iraq? Because they were told to be in Iraq.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Iraq is just another order given by the government and since you are in the army you go because that is your job when you are told to go. Simple as that. Why are the soldiers in Iraq? Because they were told to be in Iraq.

I'm 90 percent sure that they (mostly) voted for Bush in the last election. What do you reckon that's all about? This isn't an argument or anything I'm just curious because i have quiet a few friends over there including a friend of mine who died overseas yet they still voted for Bush and support the war.

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My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil Iraq is just another order given by the government and since you are in the army you go because that is your job when you are told to go. Simple as that. Why are the soldiers in Iraq? Because they were told to be in Iraq.

I KNOW THEY ARE TOLD... the question is posed to clarify the DEEPER REASONINGS behind them being there.

You are defending the occupation for what reasons? We allknow that they should be there presently becuase of the chaotic situation..but that is probably the only reason why they should be there. "rebuilding" ameri... i mean Iraq is pretty scheduled on the neo-con agenda as we all know.

The robots that are TOLD what to do usually suffer by acting as the shields for corporate greed.

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by Cyrus King I KNOW THEY ARE TOLD... the question is posed to clarify the DEEPER REASONINGS behind them being there. You are defending the occupation for what reasons? We allknow that they should be there presently becuase of the chaotic situation..but that is probably the only reason why they should be there. "rebuilding" ameri... i mean Iraq is pretty scheduled on the neo-con agenda as we all know. The robots that are TOLD what to do usually suffer by acting as the shields for corporate greed.

You asked me why they where there and I told you why the soldiers were there. I am not defending anything really, I believe now that we are there we can't just leave and let it turn even more into chaos. You call this occupation but the insurgents are just making it an occupation, let the political process work it's course, stop attacking US troops and we will be gone. Do you not believe that Iraq and the middle east in general will be better in the future without Saddam?

The reason that was given by the government for us to be there was WMD and their connections to terrorism, the former which was proven incorrect. I also think our government was made to think that the people would welcome us since Saddam was so evil so it would be an easy ride. On the side but not in the forefront where reasons such as Removing Saddam and helping to form another democratic state in the region. I think the benefit of the people of Iraq was not seen as a primary goal but was goal that would come as a result of one of the primary goals (such as removing saddam). You can't say it was to install a government because the leader we wanted and the type of government we wanted haven't been formed, remember we didn't want a federalized state based on Islam.

The reason we are there now is to attempt to keep the peace as you mentioned until the government is formed and can fight on their own. We have no reason to be there militarily after it is peaceful, we already have 2 bases in the region, one in the indian ocean, in germany, and forces in afghanistan and japan.

So there are the reasons as I see it. Also, yes I think life is better in the region now and will be better in Iraq in the years to come. Do I think it was worth our soldiers lives and $400billion? No.

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Originally posted by Lepanto I'm 90 percent sure that they (mostly) voted for Bush in the last election. What do you reckon that's all about? This isn't an argument or anything I'm just curious because i have quiet a few friends over there including a friend of mine who died overseas yet they still voted for Bush and support the war.

I don't know exactly what is in the head of other people but from what I gather they remembered the Bush who on 9/11 lifted the spirits of the country and showed a willingness to retaliate for the actions on our country and not just sit and cower. Perhaps also the soldiers supported the war because their own friends had been killed and they didn't want to leave Iraq without feeling a sense of accomplishment, hence making the war for nothing. Kerry seemed to willing to remove our troops and make consessions.

Just my guesses.

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Very nicely put Niel. To further prove your point, life in Iraq has been better. I was reading newspaper in europe this summer how Iraq now has more phone lines, more computers, more televisions and programs. How history in schools is already being to be taught differently without the limits that a DICTATOR would put on it. Just to name a few.

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My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

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Originally posted by Lepanto Very nicely put Niel. To further prove your point, life in Iraq has been better. I was reading newspaper in europe this summer how Iraq now has more phone lines, more computers, more televisions and programs. How history in schools is already being to be taught differently without the limits that a DICTATOR would put on it. Just to name a few.

Iraq also has a couple huge bombs that blow up everyday, as well as the whole country in ruin along with the fact that each person hopes to see the light of tommorow.

Get real.. computers and phone lines??? Would you be happy to get a computer and then see a hotel being blown up???? you are so diluted.

You know whats worse than saddam??? THE FUNDEMENTALIST MUSLIMS that are worhipped there now, whom operate from IRAN.

One dictator out... religious fanatacism in!

OKAY USA!!!!

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

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Originally posted by Lepanto Very nicely put Niel. To further prove your point, life in Iraq has been better. I was reading newspaper in europe this summer how Iraq now has more phone lines, more computers, more televisions and programs. How history in schools is already being to be taught differently without the limits that a DICTATOR would put on it. Just to name a few.

If the newspapers or media in general told you that country x was a bad country you would believe it.

Time for me to open up my own newspaper business and sell stories about alien abductions and cow mutilations.


There's a sucker born every minute
P.T. Barnum

Don't believe the hype
Public Enemy

Ready made opinions can be distributed day by day through the press, radio, and so on, again and again, till they reach the nerve cell and implant a fixed pattern in the brain. Consequently, guided public opinion is the result, according to Pavlovian theoreticians, of good propaganda technique, and the polls [are] a verification of the temporary successful action of the Pavlovian machinations on the mind.
Joost Meerloo, The Rape of the Mind: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 If the newspapers or media in general told you that country x was a bad country you would believe it. Time for me to open up my own newspaper business and sell stories about alien abductions and cow mutilations. There's a sucker born every minute P.T. Barnum Don't believe the hype Public Enemy Ready made opinions can be distributed day by day through the press, radio, and so on, again and again, till they reach the nerve cell and implant a fixed pattern in the brain. Consequently, guided public opinion is the result, according to Pavlovian theoreticians, of good propaganda technique, and the polls [are] a verification of the temporary successful action of the Pavlovian machinations on the mind. Joost Meerloo, The Rape of the Mind: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing

wrong. i am a media major so i know just a little bit more than the general person even though the golden rule is to never think you know more because the media is the most powerfull tool in this country.

i do my own research alot, but my post about iraq is from MANY sources and actual facts, not to mention the soldiers i know serving there.

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My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

Like I said before if the media said country x was a bad country then you and others would believe it.

One way the media knows how public opinion is shaping is through the use of polls.

Related from another threads:

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 One day when people see that they somehow (through no fault of their own) wind up in a situation that makes the Patriot Act apply to them will they complain of how unfair it is. This usually is linked to statements like: "If you don't do anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about." "Since you were arrested you must have been doing something wrong." "Laws are for those that break them." "Terrorists do not deserve the same rights as we do." These statements are usually found coming from people that have had preset ideas implanted into their minds. Mind control is either a good or bad tool depending on the result that you need. Want to quit smoking or make someone homicidal? Want to make someone buy your product or give away their liberties? Use mind control.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 So why go by what a poll says? If 90% of the population said summary execution on detainees is allowable then you would be for it wouldn't you? When arrested for crimes against the state see how your demeanor changes in opposition.

Commercial speech such as that from news media does not have to be accurate.

On February 14, a Florida Appeals court ruled there is absolutely nothing illegal about lying, concealing or distorting information by a major press organization. The court reversed the $425,000 jury verdict in favor of journalist Jane Akre who charged she was pressured by Fox Television management and lawyers to air what she knew and documented to be false information. The ruling basically declares it is technically not against any law, rule, or regulation to deliberately lie or distort the news on a television broadcast.
On August 18, 2000, a six-person jury was unanimous in its conclusion that Akre was indeed fired for threatening to report the station's pressure to broadcast what jurors decided was "a false, distorted, or slanted" story about the widespread use of growth hormone in dairy cows. The court did not dispute the heart of Akre's claim, that Fox pressured her to broadcast a false story to protect the broadcaster from having to defend the truth in court, as well as suffer the ire of irate advertisers.
Appellate Court Rules Media Can Legally Lie (Wayback link)

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Last edited by ogvh5150 on Sep-04-2005 at 01:53

vote

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Soldiers thought to be disillusioned with the war in Iraq are selling their medals from the campaign for hundreds of pounds on the internet. Dozens of the Operation Telic decorations have appeared for sale on eBay, the online auction site, just months after they were issued to troops. The revelation is said to have "dismayed" senior officers and members of the Defence Medal Office, the organisation that issues medals. Many of the troops auctioning medals are hoping to cash in on their rarity value. Although more than 90,000 have been issued, few have previously found their way on to the collectors' market. The disclosure that sales are taking place while British troops are still under fire in the region has echoes of the Vietnam conflict when veterans threw away their decorations in protest. One officer who served in the Iraq war told the Sunday Telegraph that many soldiers now believed they were sent to Iraq on a "false premise". He said that while he was proud to have served in the war, he knew of soldiers who believed they had been sent to "fight and die" in an illegal war. Any member of the armed services who has spent more than 30 days in Iraq is entitled to receive the medal. Those troops who took part in combat operations received an accompanying rosette which is understood to add greater value. One set of medals that appeared on the auction site included decorations from the first Gulf war, the Queen's Jubilee Medal and a medal awarded for service on Op Telic. The set sold for £570 to a private collector in November. According to the seller, whose details were anonymous, the Op Telic medal had been out of its packaging only twice and the recipient was a staff sergeant possibly still serving in the Army. Another Op Telic medal, sold for £352, was originally issued to a member of the Royal Artillery. The description read: "Iraq War medal with clasp reading 19th March to 28th April. Also issued with front line rosette, absolutely mint condition. Still in government box with ribbon." Details of the sales appear in the new, January issue of Soldier, the official magazine of the British Army. The magazine quoted a spokesman from the Defence Medal Office, at RAF Innsworth, Gloucestershire, which assesses medal applications, as saying: "It is disappointing to see awards up for auction. "Those selling decorations will regret it in the long term. As demonstrated with the on-going demand for Second World War and Canal Zone (Suez) Medals, decorations mean more to veterans as they get older." Patrick Mercer, the Conservative shadow homeland defence minister and a former commanding officer of an infantry battalion, said he was not surprised that some soldiers were selling military decorations. He added: "Morale must be very low if soldiers are selling their Op Telic medals just weeks after being issued with them." A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence, said: "It is not illegal to sell a medal but it is something that we would not encourage. It is very disappointing."

Soldiers sell Iraq medals through eBay

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