quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced it felt like I entered another dimension where up was down and in was out

thats how i feel everytime i come back to canada

LOL

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer This wont solve anything imo.

You know what will? Cameras in each stall of ladies' public washrooms and a nightly show of the highlights.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 again im not against cameras per se. Private ones like what we have now in stores. Im against the police/government operating the cameras. Right now in a restaurant for example, the tape is only made available to the police with a search warrant or permission from the owner. People have every right to monitor what happens on their own property. However government surveillance is a whole different story and there is a big difference.

exactly.

I'd be fine with them in certain areas and with a very narrow mandate (e.g. for assisting w/violent crime...not petty law-breaking like littering or pissing in an alley)

quote:

Originally posted by torontobarfly cameras might or might not act as a deterent to crime however what they can do is give the cops a fighting chance if there are no witnesses and the crime is caught on tape with enough clarity to identify the perps...i dont think anyone is arguing that cameras are the answer to the problem of crime however they can be used as a very effective tool in helping to combat it...

that is the real argument for cameras, IMHO.

I don't think supporters can prove that they would deter crime...but given these f**ks who don't come forward who witness it, they would certainly help in identifying and therefore apprehending criminals.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Lets take it to the extreme then.

that comment is unnesessary...it's just assumed when one's about to read one of your posts

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"There are no boring places, only boring people"

quote:

Originally posted by torontobarfly that comment is unnesessary...it's just assumed when one's about to read one of your posts

i tend to look at the big picture and possible outcomes. Yes sometimes the outcomes can seem to be extreme but thats precisely why i bring them up. Because we dont want it to come to that.

There are many many examples in today's society that is considered normal that was once considered extreme. Some over the last 100 years and some over the last 10.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

i guess the bottom line for me is i'm willing to let big brother take an extra peek over my shoulder while i'm out and about in public if there's even the slightest chance it will help lead to a safer environment....

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"There are no boring places, only boring people"

It won't do that though. It just means that after you're buried or left in the morgue to rot after the asshole shot you, they have a better chance of catching him. "But Spam," you say, "If they know they're going to be caught, they won't shoot me!" Bullshit, they already pull their guns and shoot up convenience stores, they already shoot eachother in very public places, and if they're already doing that, why will a few cameras deter them? It won't.

Bottom line is, we live in a society where people are brought up to be ego-centric, conceited, and proud (and not, the "Yay, I just got 95% on my math test" type of proud). People don't care about anyone outside of their personal bubble, and THAT is what causes crime. If people were raised with a sense of morality and how to treat others, we'd be taking a step in the right direction. How do you do that? Like hell if I know, but so far no one in the right places is even asking THAT question, instead, they want to waste millions of dollars of our tax money on a few blurry security cameras... fuck that.

quote:

Originally posted by torontobarfly cameras might or might not act as a deterent to crime however what they can do is give the cops a fighting chance if there are no witnesses and the crime is caught on tape with enough clarity to identify the perps...i dont think anyone is arguing that cameras are the answer to the problem of crime however they can be used as a very effective tool in helping to combat it...

Holy Shit...

I actually agree with this guy...

These kids did this shooting in front of witnesses yes but witnesses in a stressfull situation have poor memories...

If they knew that there was a camera on them, recording, it may have prevented what happened right there...

And Jay...I mean on the street intersections and such for accidents...like was said before...nobody is gonna care to look if Joe Schmo is watering his grass...unless he grows his weed in the front lawn...lol

The cameras in england did prove to lower the risks of crime in particular zones, and I'm sure they will be somewhat effective if brought here. I personally don't see any threats to leading private lives by having cameras monitoring the environment, afterall they are looking for crimes and I really doubt cops will sit there, or as someone put it "the government" will sit and watch us do some window shopping. I'm pretty sure just like us, cops and political leaders have their own lives, which will be under survailance when they're not working all the same.

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khalalala member #2

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmopolitan82 If you dont cover up when typing in your PIN, you deserve to have your money stolen.

Don't you think that's missing the point?

What if someone put a tiny spy cam on top of the metal roof that usually covers the keypad?

What about putting up cameras in front of the computers at public libraries and internet cafés, watching all the passwords people typed in? Or better yet, what if they installed keyloggers?

It's hypothetical and academic as to whether or not the victim went to elaborate enough lengths to preserve their privacy. Even if I failed to cover my PIN, it's still a criminal act for someone else to copy my card and try to use that PIN. The point is, there is a certain expectation of privacy, even outside one's own home. If the expectation of (limited) privacy is removed from the streets, it really is only a matter of time before it's removed from the home as well.

For example, consider the grey area - what if a rotating camera on the street could see into people's windows? What if, at some point, one of these cameras caught the face of a burglar while inside the house he was robbing? Should the evidence be accepted in court? If the courts say yes... what happens then, if the same camera happens to catch you in your own house or your own backyard, smoking a blunt?

Or what if a camera on the road captures the face of someone who stole your car, through the car window, just before the car gets taken to a chop shop and is never found? Should that evidence be accepted in court to convict him? Yes? What if those same cameras are used to bust people with radar detectors or drugs in their cars? There's no difference, is there?

It's rare for me to play the "slippery slope" card, but surveillance of any kind is a slippery slope. Just look what happened with office computers - first they just monitored the sites you were visiting, then they started monitoring your e-mail, then they installed keyloggers to monitor productivity...

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

Bottom line is, I'd prefer it if 1984 remained a fantasy world. Cameras everywhere in the city may only be one step closer, but how does the saying go? "The journey of a thousand miles starts with one step"?