quote:

Originally posted by digitul punk There's a lot of good points being raised in this thread.. and I'd say Shaolin_Z has got it right (to an extent). Islam can be adapted to any culture because it is such an open minded religion and people need to start looking at that.. even Muslims. I do agree that there's a lot of Muslims out there that think this is not possible religiously but fact of the matter is that it is and the newer generation of muslims all around the world that are starting to see that. This is not what I say .. this is how alot of Muslims think nowadays. Islam is not defined by the Quran itself only.. it's also defined by what we called "Sunnah" which are the doings and deeds of the Prophet (PBUH)-- and yes it is obvious that "Sunnah" per se wouldn't apply to today's world but it's basically something that one can learn so much from morally and spirtiually. However Muslims do need to realize that everything can't be excercised today because the times have changed.

While that's true, the only problem is that Sunnah and Hadith are not very well preserved and thier authneticity is very questionable and hard to verify. You know the Bukhari collection everyone keeps talking about (especially Sunnis), well, the Bukhari guy went around trying to collect and preserve Hadith a few generations (2?) after the prophet passed away. And once he finally compiled a bunch of them into a single volume, he told the administrative/legsilative body he lived under that he though less than 3-5 % of these were actually authentic. The "ruler" esentially asked him, "Ok, could you do me a favour and change some of these?" Bukhari refused and was imprisoned for life. So that should tell you a little something about how authentic the Hadith that are floating around are. Plus, my brother did some research on different publications of Bukhari that were printed in different years. He compared those of the last few decades and found out that the Wahabi influnced Saudi power structure had been making changes to them over time. So that's why I always take a hadith with a grain of salt, and often don't worry to much about even taking a look at them.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by digitul punk Well to answer your question.. Look at the shit happening in palestine.. you think that's very heroic?? Kids getting killed, women getting raped.. Dude.. the western super powers arn't exactly all that innocent. Your precious little Israel is fucking with Muslims on a regular basis.

isreal is a western super power?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z While that's true, the only problem is that Sunnah and Hadith are not very well preserved and thier authneticity is very questionable and hard to verify. You know the Bukhari collection everyone keeps talking about (especially Sunnis), well, the Bukhari guy went around trying to collect and preserve Hadith a few generations (2?) after the prophet passed away. And once he finally compiled a bunch of them into a single volume, he told the administrative/legsilative body he lived under that he though less than 3-5 % of these were actually authentic. The "ruler" esentially asked him, "Ok, could you do me a favour and change some of these?" Bukhari refused and was imprisoned for life. So that should tell you a little something about how authentic the Hadith that are floating around are. Plus, my brother did some research on different publications of Bukhari that were printed in different years. He compared those of the last few decades and found out that the Wahabi influnced Saudi power structure had been making changes to them over time. So that's why I always take a hadith with a grain of salt, and often don't worry to much about even taking a look at them.

Well put and agreed. I wonder if you are a muslim... But in any case... I'm a shia muslim and to me that issue is not a problem because even if the hadith are corrupted which I'm pretty sure are to a certain degree then we have cross reference scriptures from our Imams who were the following generations of the Prophet (pbuh) and their word was the prophet's word. Besides the Mujtahids and Ullemas of Iran can help us out on that. Frankly there's not an issue that they can't deal with because religiouly because the Mujtahids are in direct contact with Imam-e-Zaman which is the 12th Imam and who is said to be alive. Mind you according to shia-ism Imam's are not ordinary men like us. They have divine powers and so do the Mujtahhid's to certain degree (that is the contact with the Imam himself). All of this is very exclusive in Shia-ism and you are rarely going to find a sect with this much detail. Of course that being said this is my view and opinion.

And @ Erotic Dumbass .. Every one and their mom knows that America is behind Israel.

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Music for your Mind

like that's anyone elses fault that the ARABS (no such thing as palestinians) don't know what to do with their time. they are really loved by their own neighbors like lebanon, they in fact WORSHIP them. do you see native americans stirring shit up here? no they live and get along. you lose, you adjust and not do what you're doing, cause it ain't gonna work and you're just going to get blown the fuck up by a helicopter precision missile strike which was amazing.

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My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

@ digital_punk:

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I wonder if you are a muslim...

I am.

@ Lepanto: Your baseless accusations are beginning to get a little irritating. Why don't you try researching from multiple sources before coming to conclusions?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

baseless how? oh ok israeli civilians go into "palestine" and blow up civilian quarters INTENTIONALLY killing non-military/paramilitary personel...RIIIIIIIIGHT. i'm sure your al arabia/al jazeera research is quiet solid and more so than mine and yes you're right. native americans are blowing up night clubs in NYC and LA.

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My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto baseless how? oh ok israeli civilians go into "palestine" and blow up civilian quarters INTENTIONALLY killing non-military/paramilitary personel...RIIIIIIIIGHT. i'm sure your al arabia/al jazeera research is quiet solid and more so than mine and yes you're right. native americans are blowing up night clubs in NYC and LA.

That's not what I was reffering to, but rather your statements about Islam.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto like that's anyone elses fault that the ARABS (no such thing as palestinians) don't know what to do with their time. they are really loved by their own neighbors like lebanon, they in fact WORSHIP them. do you see native americans stirring shit up here? no they live and get along. you lose, you adjust and not do what you're doing, cause it ain't gonna work and you're just going to get blown the fuck up by a helicopter precision missile strike which was amazing.

LoL! You know what I take back what I said earlier about you.




















You arn't 13.. you are 10. That kinda explains why you are having a hard time making sense in your posts. Flame away kid.

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Music for your Mind

I make more sense, little girl, than you're vain attempts of making sense of Islam in the aftermath of all the points made against JUST muhamad. Truth hurts but that's to be expected. Only a religious person could be so ignorant

___________________
My SpaceMySpaceMUSIC
Anti-Purple Alliance.

quote:

Originally posted by Lepanto Only a religious person could be so ignorant

Ouch that hurts you jew!!! Besides aren't you a religious zelot?

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Originally posted by digitul punk You ever lived amongst muslims to judge that they are psychos?

I don't think that they're psychos. I said that the vast majority is either A, B, or C, where only A was "psychos". I expect the largest portion falls in category C, or that is, that was what I used to think. The cartoon riots and illogical boycott have made me question if the B group isn't larger than the C one.