quote:

So in other words you punish this woman for making a mistake.,..and that punishment is not 2 months in jail, not a fine but a BABY that she is NOT ready for...dont you feel that is a form of child abuse?..to bring a child into the world where he/she will not be wanted and may not be loved for...and maybe even resented....

quote:

1. Both teenagers and adults are sexual beings. 2. There is NOTHING wrong with enjoying oneself sexually; people have done this and will always do this - at ALL ages. This is perfectly natural and normal (and it's good for your health, too). 3. NO ONE can anticipate with 100% certainty what will happen in the future -- even if you are an intelligent, educated, discreet person. Even if you take precautions.

*nods*

Hmmm...
So what I'm hearing then is that sex and responsiblity are two different issue here.
Is sex wrong, no I never said that. Yes, we a sexual beings.
But I can't believe there's not one person here that believes there's no responsiblity in sex??

What if the person has a VD? (Venerial Disease)....OOOoooo....now there is something to think about. Certainly wouldn't want the ole' wiener to fall now...
So why is that decision taken so seriously against the ultimate responsibily of bring someone into the world?
Abortion should not be used (my opinion here) as a convenient scapegoat. (That's what I'm hearing; tell me if I'm wrong...)

quote:

Therefore, Fir3start3r's argument is not only stupid, it is hypocritical.

Absolutely not. I told everyone that I accept my responsility and told everyone what I did with support for my arguement. Therefore, can't be hypocritical. Hypocritical would be me not practising what I 'preach'...
Sex? I probably get it more than most people here, not to brag...but then, that's the bonus of being married to my beautiful partner.

quote:

So in other words you punish this woman for making a mistake.,..and that punishment is not 2 months in jail, not a fine but a BABY that she is NOT ready for...dont you feel that is a form of child abuse?..to bring a child into the world where he/she will not be wanted and may not be loved for...and maybe even resented....

Absolutely that 'could' happen and has. No arguement here. But as far as how the child 'could' be raised is sort of hypothetical. That's like saying I 'could' drive my car to Toronto but 'might' get in an accident. Does that stop me from driving? No.
It was no mistake how she got pregnant.

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3. NO ONE can anticipate with 100% certainty what will happen in the future -- even if you are an intelligent, educated, discreet person. Even if you take precautions.

This is true, however, we all know the process of making the baby (I hope ).
Sex is a powerful emotion, a powerful tool (aka media), even contagious to some (!) but there has to be a check somewhere.
Some people need to think ahead when it comes to sex; thinking with the head above their shoulders.
In a world where no one likes to accept responsibility, they find excuses.

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Then all this intelligent 'family planning' will go the fuck out of the window, and you'll become a supporter of abortions -- because that's reality for you.

See, here is where I have an advantage over most here. I'm married and if that happens (sure it could) then I will accept responsibility, assume fatherhood, do the best we can and have to step up our plans that's all. That's not going to stop me from having sex though (are you MAD? ).

We haven't heard from any women/girls here...what's their take on this?? (Or have we?) These are definately the people with the utimate decision...

Good points people!

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

I respect your opinion however i disagree that a woman should have to pay for her irresponsibilty
for her entire life...if we all had to pay for all the dumb idiotic things we have ALL done in our life then we would all be in seeriosu trouble..

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Hmmm... So what I'm hearing then is that sex and responsiblity are two different issue here.But I can't believe there's not one person here that believes there's no responsiblity in sex??

well they are 2 different things,,.but they do belong together...responsibilty should go hand and hand with every action we take....

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Abortion should not be used (my opinion here) as a convenient scapegoat. (That's what I'm hearing; tell me if I'm wrong...)

I dont think many women use it that way...you really think woman enjoy the abortion preocess..it is a very tramatic experience for them and is not soemthing find pleasure in....


But facing ones consequences is one thing...i mean if you say take a murderer and put him in jail for killing someone then that punishement is just...and if you take a robber or rapist for commiting their criems in jail that is also just..

BUT to take a woman who screwed up and made a poor decision and tell her she has to live with that for life is kind of crazy.....imagine you had to pay for all the stupid and naive things you have done in your life.....

a baby WHEN it is born is a human being...NOT and i repeat NOT a punishement or a criminal sentence to someones poor or ignorant choices.....it is a living and breathing creature and to make a woman who does not want it have it is CHILD ABUSE...and if you want i can get you statistics on all woman in the U.S. who have had children who didnt want them and show you how so so many babies where beaten,tortured,neglected,verbally and mentally abused......

Saying a woman must face her consequences and keep the baby is not far from saying a person who Overdoses on drugs should die and NOT be helped because he/she made a stupid decision to take too much or too dangerous drugs....there is not much difference there except 1 is life and 1 is death...either one is a cruel and harsh punishment for bad decision making....

___________________
Bring back 1994 NYC clubbing nights, cus the sh*t today is filled with junk parties and DJs that play sh*t House.....Zabiela, Sander, or Howells and all the rest suck and couldnt throw a night like it was in the early 90s in NYC!!!...Screw Twilo - give me Limelight circa 1993!!!

i dont quite know where i stand
it really depends on the situation.theres no wya of telling if its a right choice unless you are in that persons place
but the obvious is clear..
against it for people who use it as a scapegoat
but for it when a 13 yr. old gets raped by her dad and turns out pregnant