quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T showing a difference between 'nature'-depression and 'nurture'-depression would be a nice start.

there isnt a great deal of certainty regarding depression in the medical world. however, something like bipolar is quite clearly a "nature" state of depression. the fact that SSRI medications, which act directly on the neuro transmitters and have an effect in some patients, shows a strong causal link between the brain's chemical make-up and depression. the fact that some people on SSRIs see no benefit whatsoever is anecdotal evidence that some forms of depression are not caused by brain abnormalities.

how about ecstasy come downs? that horrible feeling you get on a terrible tuesday? -driven entirely by the chemical balance of your brain on that given day.

to sum up the complexities:

quote:

In the past, doctors believed that depression was the result of thoughts or emotions that were troubling for a person. More recently, experts realize that there can be several factors working together that will lead a person to become depressed. The three most important of these are biological, genetic, and environmental factors. Biological causes are due to changes in the chemistry of the brain, such as fluctuations in the levels of important hormones. Genetic causes are the result of what you inherit from your parents. If one or both of your parents have a vulnerability to depression, then it can be transmitted to you. Environmental factors (also called emotional factors) result from stressful emotional situations, such as a lack of loving parents or the death of a parent during childhood. To make it even more complicated, depression can also occur as a result of a combination of the three factors just mentioned. If you inherited a vulnerability to depression from one of your parents, your brain may react to a stressful event in a way that causes you to get depressed. Depression can also develop due to a physical illness, a reaction to a medication that you are taking, or as an outcome of substance abuse. In these cases, when the cause is successfully treated, the depression will end.

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communi...sion/causes.asp

___________________

Oh god...I wish I had my DSM-IV with me...just to shut Psy T up.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Oh god...I wish I had my DSM-IV with me...just to shut Psy T up.

My KLP-VI 2.0 completely ANNIHILATES your DSM-IV.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Oh god...I wish I had my DSM-IV with me...just to shut Psy T up.

quote:

The DSM has seen criticisms through the years. A Columbia University team headed by Robert Spitzer, one of the creators of the DSM, acknowledges a concern about the DSM in their annual report of 2001, “Problems with the current DSM-IV categorical (present vs. absent) approach to the classification of personality disorders have long been recognized by clinicians and researchers.” Among the problems, they list “arbitrary distinction between normal personality, personality traits and personality disorder” and point out the fact that the most commonly diagnosed personality disorder is 301.9, Personality Disorder not Otherwise Specified.[5] There have also been questions of potential bias of DSM authors who define psychiatric disorders. According to The Washington Post, an analysis published in Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics[6] pointed out that "every psychiatric expert involved in writing the standard diagnostic criteria for disorders such as depression and schizophrenia has had financial ties to drug companies that sell medications for those illnesses."[7] However, an important limitation of this study was that the analysis did not reveal the extent of their relationships with industry or whether those ties preceded or followed their work on the manual. In the United States, health insurance typically will not pay for psychological or psychiatric services unless a DSM-IV mental disease diagnosis accompanies the insurance claim. Critics claim that this may have exacerbated the ever-expanding number of disease categories. It may also cause people to be labeled with "illness" for the purpose of reimbursement. All physician services in the United States require an ICD code for health insurance payment, regardless if the patient has a definable illness or not. This is equally true of mental or physical complaints.

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Alcoholic Alliance
The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN there isnt a great deal of certainty regarding depression in the medical world. however, something like bipolar is quite clearly a "nature" state of depression. the fact that SSRI medications, which act directly on the neuro transmitters and have an effect in some patients, shows a strong causal link between the brain's chemical make-up and depression. the fact that some people on SSRIs see no benefit whatsoever is anecdotal evidence that some forms of depression are not caused by brain abnormalities. how about ecstasy come downs? that horrible feeling you get on a terrible tuesday? -driven entirely by the chemical balance of your brain on that given day. to sum up the complexities: http://www.healthyplace.com/Communi...sion/causes.asp

and how do you diffrentiate them? how can you expect the team behind the research we discussed earlier to show which sort of depression the patients in question were exhibiting and the sources of it in each patient to begin with?

also, you could at least give me the courtesy of presenting articles which actually bother to cite references, methodologies, et cetera. i troubled myself searching for such sites to pay you that very same courtesy. if you're not willing, i could easily go down to that level and give you plenty of links claiming the benefits of meditation towards the manic depressive, perheps even some of them might diffrentiate between the 'types' of depression out there.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T and how do you diffrentiate them? how can you expect the team behind the research we discussed earlier to show which sort of depression the patients in question were exhibiting and the sources of it in each patient to begin with? also, you could at least give me the courtesy of presenting articles which actually bother to cite references, methodologies, et cetera. i troubled myself searching for such sites to pay you that very same courtesy. if you're not willing, i could easily go down to that level and give you plenty of links claiming the benefits of meditation towards the manic depressive, perheps even some of them might diffrentiate between the 'types' of depression out there.

you see. that's precisely why i don't argue with this bastard.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Oh god...I wish I had my DSM-IV with me...just to shut Psy T up.

1. +1 to what fast turtle said.
   
2. i'd sooner argue with whoanellie about the bible

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

because you're paying $250 for a god damn HOUR

they better give you some damn good meds

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i'd sooner argue with whoanellie about the bible

You might as well - the body of evidence supporting the efficacy of SSRIs bears a stunning similarity with that supporting the healing power of prayer.

Hmm, maybe..

quote:

How spiritual values and worship attendance relate to psychiatric disorders in the Canadian population. * Baetz M, * Bowen R, * Jones G, * Koru-Sengul T. Department of Psychiatry, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon. [email protected][/email] OBJECTIVE: Research into risk and protective factors for psychiatric disorders may help reduce the burden of these conditions. Spirituality and religion are 2 such factors, but research remains limited. Using a representative national sample of respondents, this study examines the relation between worship frequency and the importance of spiritual values and DSM-IV psychiatric and substance use disorders. METHOD: In 2002, the Canadian Community Health Survey obtained data from about 37,000 individuals aged 15 years or older. While controlling for demographic characteristics, we determined odds ratios for lifetime, 1-year, and past psychiatric disorders, with worship frequency and spiritual values as predictors. RESULTS: Higher worship frequency was associated with lower odds of psychiatric disorders. In contrast, those who considered higher spiritual values important (in a search for meaning, in giving strength, and in understanding life's difficulties) had higher odds of most psychiatric disorders. CONCLUSION: This study confirms an association between higher worship frequency and lower odds of depression and it expands that finding to other psychiatric disorders. The association between spiritual values and mood, anxiety, and addictive disorders is complex and may reflect the use of spirituality to reframe life difficulties, including mental disorders.

quote:

Religiousness and mental health: a review. * Moreira-Almeida A, * Neto FL, * Koenig HG. Department of Psychiatry, Center for the Study of Religious and Spiritual Problems, Universidade de Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil. [email protected] OBJECTIVE: The relationship between religiosity and mental health has been a perennial source of controversy. This paper reviews the scientific evidence available for the relationship between religion and mental health. METHOD: The authors present the main studies and conclusions of a larger systematic review of 850 studies on the religion-mental health relationship published during the 20th Century identified through several databases. The present paper also includes an update on the papers published since 2000, including researches performed in Brazil and a brief historical and methodological background. DISCUSSION: The majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse. Usually the positive impact of religious involvement on mental health is more robust among people under stressful circumstances (the elderly, and those with disability and medical illness). Theoretical pathways of the religiousness-mental health connection and clinical implications of these findings are also discussed. CONCLUSIONS: There is evidence that religious involvement is usually associated with better mental health. We need to improve our understanding of the mediating factors of this association and its use in clinical practice.

quote:

1: Soc Work. 2006 Apr;51(2):157-66. Links Spiritually modified cognitive therapy: a review of the literature. * Hodge DR. Department of Social Work, Arizona State University-West Campus, Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100, USA. A paucity of research exists on the effectiveness of spiritual interventions, despite their wide use by practitioners and the acknowledged importance of evidence-based practice. To assist practitioners in their selection of spiritual interventions, the author reviewed research on the effectiveness of spiritually modified cognitive therapy. The results indicate that this approach has been used in diverse settings with a variety of faith groups to address a wide array of problems. Only in the area of depression, however, does spiritually modified cognitive therapy generally meet the American Psychiatric Association's criteria as a well-established empirically validated treatment. Implications of the findings for social work practice are discussed. PMID: 16858921 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

quote:

A path model of the effects of spirituality on depressive symptoms and 24-h urinary-free cortisol in HIV-positive persons. * Carrico AW, * Ironson G, * Antoni MH, * Lechner SC, * Duran RE, * Kumar M, * Schneiderman N. Department of Psychology, University of Miami, Coral Gables, FL 33146, USA. OBJECTIVE: The present investigation examined the associations among spirituality, positive reappraisal coping, and benefit finding as they relate to depressive symptoms and 24-h urinary-free-cortisol output. METHODS: Following an initial screening appointment, 264 human-immunodeficiency-virus-positive men and women on highly active antiretroviral therapy provided 24-h urine samples and completed a battery of psychosocial measures. RESULTS: Spirituality was associated with higher positive reappraisal coping and greater benefit finding. Benefit finding and positive reappraisal coping scores were, in turn, both related to lower depressive symptoms. Finally, we determined that benefit finding was uniquely predictive of decreased 24-h urinary-free cortisol output. CONCLUSION: Positive reappraisal coping and benefit finding may co-mediate the effect of spirituality on depressive symptoms, and benefit finding may uniquely explain the effect of spirituality on 24-h cortisol output. PMID: 16813845 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

quote:

Adolescent risk behaviors and religion: Findings from a national study. * Sinha JW, * Cnaan RA, * Gelles RJ. Princeton University, Princeton, USA. Too few studies have assessed the relationship between youth risk behaviors and religiosity using measures which captured the varied extent to which youth are engaged in religion. This study applied three measures of religiosity and risk behaviors. In addition, this study ascertained information about youths' participation in religious activities from a parent or caretaker. Based on a national random sample of 2004 teens (ages 11-18), this study indicates that youth perceive religion as important, are active in religious worship and activities, and further shows that perceived importance of religion as well as participation in religious activities are associated with decreased risk behaviors. Looking at ten risk behaviors, religiosity variables were consistently associated with reduced risk behaviors in the areas of: smoking, alcohol use, truancy, sexual activity, marijuana use, and depression. In the case of these six risk variables, religiosity variables were significantly associated with reduced risk behaviors when controlling for family background variables and self-esteem. The study highlights the importance of further understanding the relationship between religious variables, background variables, self-esteem, and youth risk behaviors. PMID: 16677701 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

quote:

Religion, spirituality, and depressive symptoms in primary care house officers. * Yi MS, * Luckhaupt SE, * Mrus JM, * Mueller CV, * Peterman AH, * Puchalski CM, * Tsevat J. Division of General Internal Medicine, Department of Internal Medicine, University of Cincinnati Medical Center, OH 45267, USA. [email][email protected] OBJECTIVE: The arduous nature of residency training places house officers at risk for depression. We sought to determine the prevalence of depressive symptoms in pediatric (PED), internal medicine (IM), family medicine (FM), and combined internal medicine-pediatric (IMPED) house staff, and spiritual/religious factors that are associated with prevalence of depressive symptoms. METHODS: PED, IM, FM, and IMPED residents at a major teaching program were asked to complete a questionnaire during their In-Training Examination. Depressive symptoms were measured with the 10-item Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale. Independent variables included demographics, residency program type, postgraduate level, current rotation, health status, religious affiliation, religiosity, religious coping, and spirituality. RESULTS: We collected data from 227 subjects. Their mean (SD) age was 28.7 (3.8) years; 131 (58%) were women; 167 (74%) were white; and 112 (49%) were PED, 62 (27%) were IM, 27 (12%) were FM, and 26 (12%) were IMPED residents. Fifty-seven house officers (25%) met the criteria for having significant depressive symptoms. Having depressive symptoms was significantly associated (P< .05) with residency program type, inpatient rotation status, poorer health status, poorer religious coping, and worse spiritual well-being. In multivariable analyses, having significant depressive symptoms was associated with program type, poorer religious coping, greater spiritual support seeking, and worse spiritual well-being. CONCLUSIONS: Depressive symptoms are prevalent among house officers and are associated with certain residency program types and with residents' spiritual and religious characteristics. Identifying residents with depressive symptoms and potentially attending to their spiritual needs may improve their well-being. PMID: 16530144 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And it continues... Hallelujah!

___________________
Alcoholic Alliance
The Ecstasy (MDMA) Bible Thread 2.0

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious you win again dude - and nice move shoving the whole i figured out how to order pizza thing in my face. i tried that 4 and a half months ago and woke up with a Taiwanese transvestite but to Ygrene it's just, "anoother day in the life, noooo biggieee".

What the fuck are you doing at a psychiatrist if you aren't wacked to hell is the first place? Of course they are going to give you drugs. If those don't help they'll give you a different one, if that doesn't help they'll give you a different type of drug. It's all natural of course a small amount of people respond to any single prescription but if you are willing to run the gamut you have a high chance of finding one that works for you. Of course you won't belive me if you have never dealt with this yourself but I don't give a fuck.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.