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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Jehovah's Witnesses - religious insanity?
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Jem_hadar
I remember...



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Pandora (South of Nowhere)

Well I heard a discussion about it on CBC Radio today over lunch, and I therefore got a chance to hear others across many fields weigh in on this matter (health practitioners, Canadian law specialists, Jehovah Witness's, and a man that specialize in religious and medical ethics).

After hearing this debate (BOTH sides were very powerfully discussed, this wasn't a one sided debate), I support these JW's right to practice their belief(s).

I also find it hard to condemn them (as many were doing originally in this thread) for not wanting to go through with this.

Ppl say "how can you do this, don't you love your children?"

Well... I say now "don't these parents love their god?" Their god laid it out CLEARLY in scripture that blood is sacred and should not be taken (whatever the "exact" wording was, but I'm aware that it was CLEARLY stated... it wasn't like this is a matter where one could be misinterpreting that JW bible statement wrong or that it was unclear and really open to interpretation!).

That's a pretty fucking hard choice... you're asked to decide who you love and would do more for: your newborn children or the god you have worshipped your entire life!

If you allow this transfusion in the hopes of saving your kids lives, then you're betraying your god! How can you possibly think of doing that!?!

And if you don't allow the transfusion, then you're essentially allowing your babies to die when they may have had a chance to live...!

Additionally, I'm not sure, but if a JW were to consciously allow a transfusion, I wouldn't be surprise if such an act could jeopardize their chance of getting into heaven or reaching and existing in that place or 'state of mind' that is after life (I'm not familiar with their exact belief system there.) Man... if that's true, shit, that's a massive thing to ask of a person... Disobey your god and try to help the chances of your kids living, but then be forced to live the REST OF YOUR LIFE knowing you betrayed your god and your religions beliefs, and now you may never attain whatever is waiting for you after life.

How can you judge someone for not wishing to make that choice? (assuming that such an act could cause such a thing in their belief system... this was just a hypothetical idea of what such an act may or could mean in the future of JWs both in this life and the next.)


Also, if you did this and got extricated by the JWs... that is SERIOUS SHIT for them! There is a JW (well she was raised that way anyways) at work who's a friend of mine, and she was was kicked out of their "temple" (their version of the church, if I got the term right) for getting pregnant when shes was a teenager, and that was MASSIVE thing (for her, her parents and the this entire JW community).

You are publicly denounced in front of your temple. The elders stand in judgement over you publicly at temple. All ppl of this JW community (temple?) in Collingwood were told they were not to associate ANY LONGER with Cindy. That's hardcore. You're entire social circle could also disappear then too. Close, close friends you have in the faith could/would now be forbidden to associate with you at all... wow.

That would make me second guess wanting to betray my god and faith's explicit scriptures too.

The parents have to weight all these things in. I feel so bad for them, the strife they must be facing. What a fucking SHITTY-ASS CHOICE they are forced to face and live with here -- WHATEVER their choice, either way.


And just to state, I'm an passionate atheist, not a Witness, so it's not like I'm speaking here of beliefs that I hold personally. I am merely placing myself in their shoes and analyzing the issues they are facing based on their beliefs, and all the consequences they are having to face bc of any choices they make here.

Having to choose between your god and your children is a DAMN SHITTY choice to be faced with. Period. Most (young) ppl don't strongly enough believe in god nowadays to really understand the gravity they face bc their conviction in god is SO STRONG! For too many, god is often look at as a comforting convenience, not someone/something we really worry about if we do something he hates (ie. sex before marriage, drugs, etc). The JWs don't see it that way at all. If you have a big choice: your god's ways or death (for yourself, for a different example), well you chose death for yourself then. This is your god and you worship him, he will look after you. They take that seriously. And good for them for doing that. If you're going to have a conviction, take it seriously, not just when it suits you and fits comfortable in your life!

They shouldn't be judge as harshly as they are being. And that's fucking coming from an atheist who strongly dislikes all religions. I am merely trying to be objective, as we all should be when placing judgments on this situation with these or any other JWs.

As already stated and mentioned above, Canada grants all ppl the right of religious expression, and we are fucking taking that right away from there here too, I may add. Horrible.


Jem


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 01:13  Canada
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Dj Smitty20
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: your toilet

Think of this. For all you people who believe in total religious freedom (I do not), consider this practice in Africa.

In many African societies, religion and culture dictate that females be circumcised and "sewn up" in their childhood. Is this a humane practice? Absolutely not and it would NOT be allowed to happen here on religious grounds, you can count on that.

Is not letting a child die when they could be saved through a simple medical procedue abuse of that child's rights?

I'm actually a little surprised a few of you on here would actually sit idly by (if you were a doctor) and let an infant die because their parents held a very uncommon religious belief that prohibits the transfusion of blood.

Religious freedom is tolerable...to an extent. This is one of those cases where I would draw the line and save a life.


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 01:23  Canada
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Jem_hadar
I remember...



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Pandora (South of Nowhere)

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Smitty20
Think of this. For all you people who believe in total religious freedom (I do not), consider this practice in Africa.

In many African societies, religion and culture dictate that females be circumcised and "sewn up" in their childhood. Is this a humane practice? Absolutely not and it would NOT be allowed to happen here on religious grounds, you can count on that.

Is not letting a child die when they could be saved through a simple medical procedue abuse of that child's rights?


Good point you make up... where is the point of exclusion to this relgious freedom drawn??

How far do we have a right to interfer in the lives of ppl just practicing their right to their own relgious beliefs?

quote:

I'm actually a little surprised a few of you on here would actually sit idly by (if you were a doctor) and let an infant die because their parents held a very uncommon religious belief that prohibits the transfusion of blood.


Actually, they CANT. Its why these babies were taken into custody. Canadian law as it stands says doctors/the government needs to step in for the chidlren's rights. It's why this all happened in the first place.

It wasnt just bc a couple doctor's felt the situation was morally wrong and felt they wanted to do something about it... legally, they had to. So wether if they thought it was wrong or right, they were forced to step in regardless.

This matter was discussed on the radio programme too. They had a professional and law-abiding obligation to do so.

quote:

Religious freedom is tolerable...to an extent. This is one of those cases where I would draw the line and save a life.


That I live my life without (silly, IMO) religion and any belief in the notion of some god, I am forever happy about. Scheiße, what shitty choices one has to make (and not limited to only this one presently either) bc of a figure they choose to believe in. Can't imagine, personally.


___________________
TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

Old Post Feb-02-2007 01:34  Canada
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Jehovah's Witnesses - religious insanity?
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