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sljiva
experimental



Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Zagreb

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
What about Grace - Not Over Yet? I've always considored it to be the first commercial trance track.


& Jam & Spoon vocal tracks were very successful in the early 90-ies

Old Post Mar-27-2007 18:27  Croatia
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RebeL9
The Digital Blonde addict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by Spirit5
It should if trance is only those artists who were around from about 89 or 90 till 96 or is only psy or goa trance. Any of those in the progressive and epic catagories wouldn't be trance, an overwhelming majority of them who have made the sound what it is. Sure they kinda broke away from the really repetitive, hypnotic and acidiy sound of some of the earlier stuff, but they are what made the style known. Not every single trance track I like or other people like, or one by the bigger names, is only with a huge long extended breakdown ala Rank 1 "Airwave".

Sure there's those out there, but I don't hear that on every single track even the big guys like Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk and Ferry Corsten play or have produced. "Blue Fear" one of Armin's classics, doesn't have a 3 minute breakdown and it is known as a trance classic. Lots of people listen to that and who are into it think "trance". Tiesto's "Magik" series was basically all trance, and not every track was with a 3 minute breakdowns that people say have "killed trance". Even tracks like Gaia "4 Elements" produced by Armin van Buuren does not have a long 3 minute breakdown. It pretty much flows throughout with some minor tension and release. Some little breakdowns are so common to almost every genre of music, some type of climax or tension and release.


Just wondering where and when someone have said that only psy and goa have ever been "proper" trance? For example old tracks as Zyon - No Fate is neither goa or psy trance but still is a perfect example of melodic trance without being the slightest fluffy.


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Old Post Mar-27-2007 18:33  Afghanistan
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Spirit5
Nobody



Registered: Jun 2005
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
Just wondering where and when someone have said that only psy and goa have ever been "proper" trance? For example old tracks as Zyon - No Fate is neither goa or psy trance but still is a perfect example of melodic trance without being the slightest fluffy.


Well that what the argument seems like, to me at least, put forth on here over and over, that melodic progressive and epic trance isn't true "trance" because it doesn't sound identical to the older stuff. See that track might be good, but again it's not what got me, or other people on here, into the sound. And fluffiness, well there's a lot of melodic trance that is emotive without getting into overt fluffiness. Do you consider Micro de Govia fluffy? I've been a big fan of his, and he makes emotive and beautiful music but it's still got a slightly tougher edge to it. But I don't really expect in the music I like to always have this dark, cold or harder-edged sound. I mean maybe it's because my personality, I am not an agressive person and I don't like really "tough" banging music (one of the reasons i'm not into metal or hard trance or darker full on psy), just energetic and uplifting. So naturally I am drawn to the melodic, uplifting stuff that isn't so pop-like with sing songey vocals (maybe some of the older stuff like that as mentioned). You might consider something "fluffy" while I consider it beautiful and emotive.

I think that attitude is more "implied" than someone coming right out and saying that except Ishkur does get into the "your trance sucks and mine is better" or "it's not "true" trance because it has a 1 minute breakdown and a melody". I can understand the argument against fluffiness or about the labels on CDs that I hate as well...saying they are "trance" when they are mostly just euro-dance/pop stuff. I got into the sound based upon CDs and Net Radio (a trance station) around 98...stuff that was melodic that I liked and was looking for. I didn't really get into because I liked the beats and the bass or whatever, but that was important to making a track energetic to me as well. I just didn't, and don't, focus on that aspect so much. I actually thought trance was the type of music that was overtly repetitive, until I listened to this Net Radio station around 98 and heard tracks with melody that weren't so overly repetitive. I even talked to a producer/DJ at a RecordTown store and he introduced me to the more melodic trance stuff like Paul van Dyk and Bt. If they were repetitive (which they largely still were) at least had an interesting melody or a breakdown to make things, IMO at least, nicer to listen to. While dancing though, i've always found it better to dance to more repetitive, less melodic and more rhythmic stuff that wasn't neccessarily the same music that I listened to.

You have to understand, that I am someone whose approached this music (trance) as more of a listener than a club-goer or festival-goer. I was pretty young during the late 90s (too young to go to clubs) when I got into it, and went to a few events that featured some of the music. Since I turned 18 four years go, i've only been to a few clubs and the clubs around here don't play this music. One club used to (Bleu) but they've gone mostly house now. So my only option is to travel to either Europe or some other city in the US...though to find clubs that play trance in the US is difficult. I approach it as "what is better to listen to?" than "what is better to dance to a club or festival", cause I just don't go to them (don't have the time, money or connections).

Got a sample of the track?

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-27-2007 at 19:45

Old Post Mar-27-2007 19:04  United States
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by Ishkur
Go ahead, ask this forum.


Why bother?


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Old Post Mar-27-2007 21:30  England
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RebeL9
The Digital Blonde addict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by Spirit5
Well that what the argument seems like, to me at least, put forth on here over and over, that melodic progressive and epic trance isn't true "trance" because it doesn't sound identical to the older stuff. See that track might be good, but again it's not what got me, or other people on here, into the sound. And fluffiness, well there's a lot of melodic trance that is emotive without getting into overt fluffiness. Do you consider Micro de Govia fluffy? I've been a big fan of his, and he makes emotive and beautiful music but it's still got a slightly tougher edge to it. But I don't really expect in the music I like to always have this dark, cold or harder-edged sound. I mean maybe it's because my personality, I am not an agressive person and I don't like really "tough" banging music (one of the reasons i'm not into metal or hard trance or darker full on psy), just energetic and uplifting. So naturally I am drawn to the melodic, uplifting stuff that isn't so pop-like with sing songey vocals (maybe some of the older stuff like that as mentioned). You might consider something "fluffy" while I consider it beautiful and emotive.

I think that attitude is more "implied" than someone coming right out and saying that except Ishkur does get into the "your trance sucks and mine is better" or "it's not "true" trance because it has a 1 minute breakdown and a melody". I can understand the argument against fluffiness or about the labels on CDs that I hate as well...saying they are "trance" when they are mostly just euro-dance/pop stuff. I got into the sound based upon CDs and Net Radio (a trance station) around 98...stuff that was melodic that I liked and was looking for. I didn't really get into because I liked the beats and the bass or whatever, but that was important to making a track energetic to me as well. I just didn't, and don't, focus on that aspect so much. I actually thought trance was the type of music that was overtly repetitive, until I listened to this Net Radio station around 98 and heard tracks with melody that weren't so overly repetitive. I even talked to a producer/DJ at a RecordTown store and he introduced me to the more melodic trance stuff like Paul van Dyk and Bt. If they were repetitive (which they largely still were) at least had an interesting melody or a breakdown to make things, IMO at least, nicer to listen to. While dancing though, i've always found it better to dance to more repetitive, less melodic and more rhythmic stuff that wasn't neccessarily the same music that I listened to.

You have to understand, that I am someone whose approached this music (trance) as more of a listener than a club-goer or festival-goer. I was pretty young during the late 90s (too young to go to clubs) when I got into it, and went to a few events that featured some of the music. Since I turned 18 four years go, i've only been to a few clubs and the clubs around here don't play this music. One club used to (Bleu) but they've gone mostly house now. So my only option is to travel to either Europe or some other city in the US...though to find clubs that play trance in the US is difficult. I approach it as "what is better to listen to?" than "what is better to dance to a club or festival", cause I just don't go to them (don't have the time, money or connections).

Got a sample of the track?


for your information there is more trance styles apart from the ones you mentioned. I've never heard anyone say that tech-trance isn't trance (not talking about the cheesy dutch so called "tech trance") or that the progressive trance Sasha, Warren and Digweed spun back in the 90s isn't trance. I can't talk for all people who say that epic trance isn't trance. There is loads of melodic trance I definetly would considor proper trance. But a very small amount of the melodic trance today is "proper" trance in my ears. It's melodic, maybe too melodic, but it's not entrancing.

And talking about Mirco De Govia, I like his production. He is one of the few left melodic producers today which I still have some hope for.


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Old Post Mar-27-2007 21:50  Afghanistan
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neatski
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2007
Location: West Lafayette, IN

Seems to take away from the trance experience... I love the emotion in trance, it's kind of like the producer is forcing certain thoughts on my feelings when there are vocals in the trance.

Sometimes it annoys the SHIT out of me, esp when the music is good and the lyrics are stupid and cheesy!

Old Post Mar-27-2007 22:17  United States
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

Too many tracks that just slap on vocals on top, instead of working to fully integrate the vocals within the structure of the tune.

BAD!


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quote:
Originally posted by chinamon
not true. i say "ugh"
but i am a tranny.
quote:
Originally posted by kotsy
lol colour me retarded

Old Post Mar-27-2007 22:42  Canada
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Sykonee
Supreme EMCritic



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by sljiva
& Jam & Spoon vocal tracks were very successful in the early 90-ies

That's eurodance.


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Old Post Mar-28-2007 01:00  Canada
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Spirit5
Nobody



Registered: Jun 2005
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
for your information there is more trance styles apart from the ones you mentioned. I've never heard anyone say that tech-trance isn't trance (not talking about the cheesy dutch so called "tech trance") or that the progressive trance Sasha, Warren and Digweed spun back in the 90s isn't trance. I can't talk for all people who say that epic trance isn't trance. There is loads of melodic trance I definetly would considor proper trance. But a very small amount of the melodic trance today is "proper" trance in my ears. It's melodic, maybe too melodic, but it's not entrancing.

And talking about Mirco De Govia, I like his production. He is one of the few left melodic producers today which I still have some hope for.


See Micro de Govia is the sound I love. And productions from others like Steve Helstrip, esp under "Rapid Eye", and Paul van Dyk's old sound from "Seven Ways" and "Out There & Back" and Bt's from "Ima", "ESCM" and some of the tracks on "Movement In Still Life". I've also liked stuff from Steve Gibbs (Altitude), Solar Stone with "Seven Cities" and "Solarcoaster", and Airwave with "Above The Sky", "Another Dimension", "Save Me" and "Ladyblue" and some of the newer produces like Aalto, Super8, Phynn, and Kalafut & Fygle, and a number of others. I like the really energetic stuff, I just find the more melodic stuff better, as long as it doesn't get into heavy super-saws and such, like Svenson & Gielen used to or Rank 1 or a lot of lesser known producers. If there is one DJ I could name that defines the style i've liked over the years, it's Matt Hardwick. The stuff he plays is energetic, chilled and melodic...a little bit of everything.

Oh and I realize there is more styles of trance than the ones I listed. They are the ones though that I prefer (epic and progressive) and have liked over the years. And because their structure tends to be different than goa or psy or some tech trance, they are sometimes put in a different catagory (albiet still "trance"). Beatport and AudioJelly put those in seperate areas..psy has it's own catalogue, and trance (epic, tech, hard and progressive) in their own.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-28-2007 at 05:23

Old Post Mar-28-2007 02:01  United States
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varun
Sunbaked



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Bangkok

quote:
Originally posted by RebeL9
(not talking about the cheesy dutch so called "tech trance")


Just curious, what sort of cheesy dutch tech-trance are you talking about?


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Old Post Mar-28-2007 05:18  India
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Spirit5
Nobody



Registered: Jun 2005
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by varun
Just curious, what sort of cheesy dutch tech-trance are you talking about?


I think he's talking about Sander van Doorn since he's obviously dutch and obviously popular..has made that sound popular.

Old Post Mar-28-2007 05:22  United States
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Ishkur
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver, BC

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Why bother?


You're right....who wants to go through all that Spirit5 drivel?

brevity, man. Jesus fucking christ.

Old Post Mar-28-2007 05:51  Canada
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