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Originally posted by Taranis And the self defense card isn't really valid either, how many lives do you think are saved by someone defending themselves with a gun they would not have had if gun access was restricted, in comparison to lives lost by someone taking them with a gun they otherwise would not have had.

i would argue that there are orders of magnitude more lives saved by the presence of a firearm than those lost to them. in a country like mine anyway.

if in my country there are enough firearms to place one in the hands of every man, woman and child then i think those numbers saved by the presence of firearms looks pretty good.

Presence of guns increases safety hey?

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American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)

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In a single year, 3,012 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States, according to the latest national data released in 2002. That is one child every three hours; eight children every day; and more than 50 children every week. And every year, at least 4 to 5 times as many kids and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

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Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001)

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Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics)

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American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control)

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According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001)

Good work America, keep up the stellar effort..

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A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire

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Originally posted by Dupz Good work America, keep up the stellar effort..

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Originally posted by Dupz Presence of guns increases safety hey?

as it pertains to matters of defence against the violent use of them, yes.

once again you have failed to grasp the context of the argument.

how many automobiles kill children while we are on the subject of random statistics?

and if you don't like us, you can always go f**k yourself

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Originally posted by Q5echo as it pertains to matters of defence against the violent use of them, yes. once again you have failed to grasp the context of the argument. how many automobiles kill children while we are on the subject of random statistics? and if you don't like us, you can always go f**k yourself

1. Last time I checked, taking the law into ones hands is illegal. I’m guessing there’s a reason for that, and a logical one at that.
2. Random statistics relating directly to firearms, compared to random topics about automobiles. Which makes more sense? While we’re at it, why not point out the fact that cancer also kills children…
3. Do not generalise me into someone who doesn’t like American’s for being American’s. I’ll leave that to the no brainer bigots.

Now that we have begun such a civilised conversation, I’ll fire out some more random statistics.

In 2004, the US recorded 16,750 suicides by firearms (American Association of Suicidology). This is out of a population of 301,000,000 or so.

Compare this to another country of similar industrialisation/wealth/whatever. Take Australia for instance, with a population of roughly 20,500,000.

If the rate of firearms suicides were to hold in Australia, they would record 1,141 deaths in 2004. This is compared to statistic recorded by the Australian Bureau of Statistic claiming that only 169 deaths occurred by firearms in a suicide during the year.

Keep the rebuttals coming, because there is no doubt that people kill people and not guns, but at least we can do something about it. Nevertheless, what other use does a semi-automatic assault rifle have than killing fellow human beings? For hunting, yeah? Just in case you charged by a pack of woolly mammoths.

But who knows, that King of England might invade at an minute…

___________________
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire

quote:

Originally posted by Dupz Now that we have begun such a civilised conversation, I’ll fire out some more random statistics. In 2004, the US recorded 16,750 suicides by firearms (American Association of Suicidology). This is out of a population of 301,000,000 or so. Compare this to another country of similar industrialisation/wealth/whatever. Take Australia for instance, with a population of roughly 20,500,000. If the rate of firearms suicides were to hold in Australia, they would record 1,141 deaths in 2004. This is compared to statistic recorded by the Australian Bureau of Statistic claiming that only 169 deaths occurred by firearms in a suicide during the year. Keep the rebuttals coming, because there is no doubt that people kill people and not guns, but at least we can do something about it. Nevertheless, what other use does a semi-automatic assault rifle have than killing fellow human beings? For hunting, yeah? Just in case you charged by a pack of woolly mammoths. But who knows, that King of England might invade at an minute…

thread it then. just don't do it here. thanx.

Well, the topic does relate to a suicide (with the gunman being the 32nd fatality), so there might be some justification in posting it. But fair enough, point taken.

___________________
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire

Actually...and this may be an old statistic...less than a quarter of the guns used by criminals are bought through legal means. The rest are either in "circulation" already or acquired illegally.

(This is referring to a previous Renegade post...sorry, I'm too lazy to even quote this morning )

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/ffo98.pdf

*EDIT*

--Actually, here are a whole bunch of statistics...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Actually...and this may be an old statistic...less than a quarter of the guns used by criminals are bought through legal means. The rest are either in "circulation" already or acquired illegally.

gun laws only hurt the innocent gun owners..... not the criminals.....

Last edited by LazFX on Apr-17-2007 at 13:18

I remember the gun drives that we had after the Port Author Massacre, tens of thousands of Australians handed in their guns to be destroyed for a fraction of the cost they bought them for, and our country is alot safer for it.

Yesterday night two Americans in the university i work at here in Ecuador said ¨can you help us get a Visa to Australia jake¨ jokingly referring to how fucked up the gun system is in the US

three days ago a 22 year old was executed on my street corner, one shot ot the back of the head, one shot through the back, they stole his car only to dump it on the other side of the city and take out the $50 stereo

i love my country.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in any case, even the anti-nationalistic pkc loves his country for its stance on guns. but i do plan to travel to the US or vietnam so i can play with some of my favourite assault rifles

when i was in Cambodia you could pay to shoot with an AK47 at chickens, pay a little more and you could shoot a rocket launcher at a cow i was thinking of going but after visiting the Killing Fields i wasnt in the mood for guns

God bless America!

How many more lives have been taken in simular episodes? It's simple your laws are too relaxed you need stricter gun laws.

This 2nd Ammendment or whatever is irrelevant. Your not living in some frontier land shooting bears and hostile Indians anymore.

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