quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i see. i was about to say there is no plurality of Allah in Islam (i'm pretty sure) like there is the Trinity in Christianity and if that were true he would be horribly blasphemous in the eyes Islam.

Actually, Evangelicals are hard at work - after getting through to some Jews and got them to convert to Jews for Jesus, Muslims for Jesus was the next logical progression:

http://www.muslimsforjesus.org/

LMAO. bunch of fucking clowns, the lot of them.

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd By the way: Please say this to the Russian government which is meddling in Estonia's affairs for removing a WW2 statue. But Russia feels it has the right to protest and interfere, just like these Muslims. And, because I think I can guess which side you are on in that debate my advice: quit bullshitting.

Oh snappppppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



woooooooooow. w00t! that was a definite Zing-worthy post!

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Whats wrong with you people ... bunch of stupid hypocrites. Idiots. No respect for the fallen soldiers or the Geneva conventions and then you guys DARE TELL ME ABOUT DEMOCRACY ISSUES IN RUSSIA? You guys dont have a dam idea about what democracy is. Even human rights. I am still waiting for the proof that Russia is meddling in Estonian affairs. Please, indulge me. Proof speaks louder than cheap words.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I fell off my chair laughing on this one. Wiseass, tell me how exactly are they meddling. Ummm, is it considered mmeddling, wiseass, when Russian government launches a formal protest with E.U. and UN over the illegal and pathetic dismantling of a WW2 dead soldiers monument that is protected under the post-WW2 agreeements? Wiseass, how exactly did they meddle when the statue still was taken down? Huh? In fact, it like dismantling your dad's grave who fought against bitter criminals and died a hero liberating someone else's land. The least they could do is leave it the way it is, to respect the people who saved they culture from extermination. But they spit in the face of the 250,000 dead Russian sooldiers who died liberating Estonia from Nazi regime. They died for nothing. We should have just stopped at the border and allowed Nazis to continue massacring them in concentration camps then, right? People like you make me sick. How would you feel if lets say France closed down and digged up the top monument that was built to commemorate your relative who lost his life liberating France from Nazis? Huh? My dad was right. We should have never chased the Nazis and let Ukrainians, Latvians, Estonians and Poles be butchered and assimilated into a Nazi machine. My grandfather died so that these Nazi supporters in Ukraine can march and claim how great Hitler was when Hitler massacred so many Ukrainians. Bastards.

dude, Estonia didn't want to be liberated from Germans. Quite to the contrary, quite a few of them were rather willing to be under German rule rather than Russian. Many of Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian men joined German forces and fought against Russians. Same goes for Ukrainians. Russians were dispised by just about every republic they invaded. Imperialist ambitions of mother Russia have not ceized just because the rule went from Czarist to Bolshevik system. Same goes for Poles, Checz, Hungarian, Romanian, etc. Many of them hated Germans. But they hated Russians even more.

I'm not defending their actions, just putting historical perspective on the situation. I'm sure you know of all-Ukrainian/Latvian/Lithuanian waffen (german army) units, no?

just in case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Ukrainian)

___________________

quote:

No one wants to die. Even people who want to go to heaven don’t want to die to get there. And yet death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life’s change agent. It clears out the old to make way for the new. Right now the new is you, but someday not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it is quite true.

--Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)

Last edited by emc^2 on Jun-20-2007 at 00:01

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 dude, Estonia didn't want to be liberated from Germans. Quite to the contrary, quite a few of them were rather willing to be under German rule rather than Russian. Many of Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian men joined German forces and fought against Russians. Same goes for Ukrainians. Russians were dispised by just about every republic they invaded. Imperialist ambitions of mother Russia have not ceized just because the rule went from Czarist to Bolshevik system. Same goes for Poles, Checz, Hungarian, Romanian, etc. Many of them hated Germans. But they hated Russians even more. I'm not defending their actions, just putting historical perspective on the situation. I'm sure you know of all-Ukrainian/Latvian/Lithuanian waffen (german army) units, no? just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_W...(1st_Ukrainian)

OH YEAH? Havent you heard about Russian pro-Nazi armies either? How about General Andrey Vlasov, Pyotr Krasnov, Andrei Shkuro? The others were wiped out. Oh, there were thousands of Estonians who fought on the side of the Red Army. There were supporters of both Hitler and Stalin in Estonia and other countries, so what? General Rokossovskiy, himself Polish, was pro-Russian and a high ranking Soviet general, for example. Krushchev was Ukrainian. Does that make it OK to break Geneva Conventions and dig up and displace a war memorial? Not all, not a majority at least of people in Ukraine, Latvia, Poland, Estonia, etc. were against Soviets primarily. They were actually against BOTH Soviet and Nazi armies. But they preferred Soviets over Nazis. No wonder why in 1939 Soviet armies were greeted with little resistance in Eastern Poland while Germans battled their way through to take the western part of it. Over two-thirds of Ukrainians today live in Eastern Ukraine, which is predominantly Russian-speaking (same for Crimea).

Here, for example, how Russians have made up Ukraine for a long time now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

given their conduct during the war, i find WW2 memorials for germans, italians, russians or japanese to be unimportant.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN given their conduct during the war, i find WW2 memorials for germans, italians, russians or japanese to be unimportant.

Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

I am in no way part of a "cool haterz gang"

All I wanted was to prove a point, and I proved it with your help.

Too often, people don't put themselves in others' shoes. We all get angry when our dignity is on the line.

___________________
"The favorite American pastime is not baseball, it's moral crusades."

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Yet another person who has no respect, appreciation and understanding of history. If it wasnt for the Soviet army, today the whole Europe and maybe the world would be speaking German and hailing Heil Hitler. So for sacrificing so much, for the sake of your liberty and nazi-free living, but you also join the cool haterz gang. Soviet armies destroyed, captured or disabled more Nazi divisions than all other threatres of the war combined. For that they deserve more than just a stinky monument that Estonia thought was too much for them to handle.

i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy. i especially liked how they helped them seize poland in 39. that was a collossal sacrifice.

i am not underestimating the role the USSR played, but i'm not going to ignore the atrocities committed by them either. thus, as i said, i find shrines to the mentioned countries being removed do not interest me enough to be shocked or horrified. indeed, i could argue the nazi sacrifice against the red army stopped the soviets from swallowing all of europe. do they too deserve their shrines?

also, in case you're wondering, the soviets would have had a fucking tough time of it without their allies. so stop making it sound like the USSR won WW2 all by themselves.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy. i especially liked how they helped them seize poland in 39. that was a collossal sacrifice. i am not underestimating the role the USSR played, but i'm not going to ignore the atrocities committed by them either. thus, as i said, i find shrines to the mentioned countries being removed do not interest me enough to be shocked or horrified. indeed, i could argue the nazi sacrifice against the red army stopped the soviets from swallowing all of europe. do they too deserve their shrines? also, in case you're wondering, the soviets would have had a fucking tough time of it without their allies. so stop making it sound like the USSR won WW2 all by themselves.

Without Allies, Soviet Union would have had a stalemate with Nazi Germany. The West just saved its own arse when they realized that Soviets would defeat Nazis so only in 1944 did they finally land in mainland Europe because they didnt want Soviets "liberating" entire Europe. Stalin begged and begged for early Western armies landing in Europe as early as 1942. But I do appreciate ALL Allies contribution in defeating Nazi terror machine. Though I am not very sympathetic with Stalin's terror either.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i have nothing but respect for the role the USSR played in defeating the nazis, little boy.

Too bad they didn't defeat you, nazis boy!