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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Well this post gets a big fat, "Duh" Again, putting up walls and having Crown corporations buy stuff up in the name of patriotism is not exactly a great game plan. Adscam ring any bells? (For those of you that aren't sure what I'm refering to here: > Sponsership Scandal <; it was Canada's largest government scandal in history). I had no love of government involvement in business to begin with but that took the cake. And yet again, we find people still crying out about having the government get involved where free markets should be.

You're really confusing me here. Who said we need to put up more barriers? I too am against government involvement but there's a difference between opening up the country for foreign takeover and protecting our resources so that OUR country gains the most from it, and not some fat capitalist snob 10,000KM away. That's why deep integration is bad.

We can just as easily go into this NAU (or whatever they're calling it) with a set of our own rules that benefit us as much as everyone else. The problem is that the Americans are the ones practically setting rules to benefit them the most, just like NAFTA.

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Jul-17-2007 at 18:43

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Originally posted by malek Noooooo profits are good, but i believe you don't see the greater picture here. I'm not a lefty or anything, i am just witnessing the erosion of Canadian ownership over our resources and top companies.

Unfortunately my friend, that is free enterprise. We cannot expect to put in place protectionary measures and then also maintain a viable economy. It just doesn't work. If you want to protect Canadian industry from foriegn ownership then you need to find a way to encourage Canadians to invest in Canadian industry... you may wish to lobby your MP to work towards incentives in this regard (tax shelters and the like). While I understand your concern closing ourselves off to the rest of the world is not the way to successfully address them. If we want a viable economy in the new global reality then we need more intergration, not less.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by LazFX But its so cool to be anti-us and that is what fuels allot of this rhetoric

It's even cooler to keep latching on that same argument and coming off as an ignorant tool.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Unfortunately my friend, that is free enterprise. We cannot expect to put in place protectionary measures and then also maintain a viable economy. It just doesn't work. If you want to protect Canadian industry from foriegn ownership then you need to find a way to encourage Canadians to invest in Canadian industry... you may wish to lobby your MP to work towards incentives in this regard (tax shelters and the like). While I understand your concern closing ourselves off to the rest of the world is not the way to successfully address them. If we want a viable economy in the new global reality then we need more intergration, not less.

Yes!
Taxes incentives for investing in Canadian markets are an excellent idea. This has to exist already no?

I totally support Canadian companies when I can but I can't picture myself supporting a company that already gets my tax dollars to prop them up to begin with.

infinity HiGH:
Foriegn ownership is always going to step in to fill the void of missing speculators and investors.
So long as they employee Canadian labour how do we loose anyways?
It up to the Canadian government to keep thoses business happy once they've established themselves.
Sure the bottom line might not be ours, but if quality product and the right (tax) incentives are here, the people win anyways.
It's really no different if the company is Canandian or not since any Canadian company can pack up and move to another country if they want, citing 'operational costs' or what-have-you at any point anyways right?

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

yes it existed somehow by capping the % of foreign content in ones RRSPs. Now the cap has been removed by the conservative.

As for having the head office in Canada, its having higher management jobs and keeping our best talent here not sending them abroad. Also, usually a head office is concerned by local issues and generally speaking most of them are good corporate citizens by sponsoring local events and issues. Thats why its important to keep them here.

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Originally posted by malek RIM ??? are you guys just fucking around or what? its tiny!! Canada just lost Alcan to foreign intrests, third largest aluminium producer which employed 65,000 in 61 countries with 5000 in Canada!! Canada lost all of its important players in the mining buisness as of late! Its crazy! Why do foreign interests buy canadian companies? not because they love Canada but because they are profitable and are the best in their fields. What Canada might become and is becoming is a country full of branch companies where important decisions are taken elsewhere disregarding our own intrest and well-being.

Not to mention loosing Noranda and Falconbridge, top ten producers of copper and nickle. (all three companies were packaged and sold by Brookfeild asset management)

These mining losses hurt the economy doubly because the head offices are pulled out of Toronto and moved to other countries, which means that foreign banks will now be financing investment.

To strengthen the Canadian economy three things need to happen, head offices need to be kept in the country, investment in value added industries (such as oil refineries) needs to be encouraged, and competition for our exports needs to be facilitated.

Some of this we are doing, part of the reason Alcan was bought was because the smelting facilities have acess to cheap Quebecois power (hydro), which is about 1/3 of the final cost in producing Aluminum.

Unfortunately the conservative, suposedly business savy, government is responsible for the Chinese abandonment of a pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific. This would have greatly increased the number of customers our oil could reach in a cost effective manner.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Adscam ring any bells? (For those of you that aren't sure what I'm refering to here: > Sponsership Scandal <; it was Canada's largest government scandal in history). I had no love of government involvement in business to begin with but that took the cake. And yet again, we find people still crying out about having the government get involved where free markets should be.

Which is part of the reason the rest of the world looks at us and laughs.

The corruption in other countries is cited in million, even billions of dollars lost. We spent more money publicicing the event then was lost in the actual "scandal".

And why did the media give it so much attention? Is it because the people were concerned?

or is it because the conservatives have actively bought up the media in this country, based on the model in the US?

I agree with you on the open markets though, boy am I sick of crack being illegal. Goverment out, let the crack heads burn themselves out.

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Originally posted by atbell Some of this we are doing, part of the reason Alcan was bought was because the smelting facilities have acess to cheap Quebecois power (hydro), which is about 1/3 of the final cost in producing Aluminum.

I don't know to which extent you are following this issue, but the deal with Alcan might be abandonned by Hydro Quebec if Rio Tinto lighten the importance of the head office in Montreal. I don't know how they'll measure that but its something that will be followed by other jurisdictions ...

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Originally posted by malek I don't know to which extent you are following this issue, but the deal with Alcan might be abandonned by Hydro Quebec if Rio Tinto lighten the importance of the head office in Montreal. I don't know how they'll measure that but its something that will be followed by other jurisdictions ...

I've been watching moderately closely. Doesn't Alcan have some amount of generating infrastructure of it's own?

Either way that's an interesting deal Hydro is offering.

yes it does have some dams, but any companies having dams needs to pay royalty to the province for using the waters... and thats where Alcan gets its rebates.

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Originally posted by atbell Which is part of the reason the rest of the world looks at us and laughs. The corruption in other countries is cited in million, even billions of dollars lost. We spent more money publicicing the event then was lost in the actual "scandal". And why did the media give it so much attention? Is it because the people were concerned? or is it because the conservatives have actively bought up the media in this country, based on the model in the US? I agree with you on the open markets though, boy am I sick of crack being illegal. Goverment out, let the crack heads burn themselves out.

Canada lost hundreds of millions of dollars in investment because of that scam.
It tainted Canada in the world market but happily the corrupt Liberal party was ousted by the people.
Conservatives eat up the media?? hahahahahaahaha....
The current government has no love for the media and thankfully so.
The $1 Billion dollar / year, tax-fed CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Company; speaking of useless Crown Corporations) certainly wouldn't agree with anything the current government would have to say in our lifetime...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Yes! Taxes incentives for investing in Canadian markets are an excellent idea. This has to exist already no? I totally support Canadian companies when I can but I can't picture myself supporting a company that already gets my tax dollars to prop them up to begin with.

Yes, there are tax incentives in the form of tax shelters, however, the largest incentive was the Canadian content rule on RRSPs (which as Malek pointed out was scraped by "Canada's New Government," as they like to call themselves).

I think you would be shocked to learn just how many companies are supported with your tax dollars. Corporate welfare is alive and well in Canada with much of it going to corporations you'd never suspect. Personally, I don't view this as a bad thing... if part of the role of government is to protect the livelihoods of Canadians and that livelihood is threatened by businesses going under or moving to find cheaper labour then it just makes good sense that the government would assist in keeping those businesses here rather then losing that portion of the tax base. Generally, the taxes generated by the existance of these corporations outweighs the funding they receive (exception for crown corporations) thus corporate welfare is a net gain.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down