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Originally posted by Beat Blog The biggest problems on Australian roads, as I see it, is the “special awareness” thing, which is borne out of people’s attitudes. When I get in the car, I switch my mind onto the task at hand, and that’s it, concentrate. A majority of people I see are off in fucking la la land, because they’re not taking things seriously in the car, and have their mind on other things, like if that rash on their genitals is going to clear up or not.

I'm not disagreeing at all, though I'm sure everybody's had moments like that. Some people make it a daily practice, though.

The problem is, though, as I mentioned before, raising the requirements to the point of diminishing returns with respect to driving skill would have too great an impact on daily life for the world as a whole.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous Finally, I don't think you can effectively summarize the reasoning of an entire group of people without either comprehensive data or unquestionable logic--neither of which you have presented.

4wds kill people quite effectively and cause substantial amounts of accidents to the point where it has been debated in parliament over here.

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Road Safety and Driver Attitudes 4WD accident problems form part of wider road safety issues.(5) With the New Year release of annual road accident statistics, the abhorrent reality of deaths, injuries and social effects on the community receives wide attention. Campaigns against drink driving, speeding, traffic light infringements and seat belt non-use have led to reductions in the carnage, but the accident rates seem to be stagnating. The rise in 4WD use is not helping to arrest the trend. Commentators attribute the difficulty in further reducing the road toll to entrenched community attitudes. The ownership and operation of a car is often viewed as a public right, with little regard to safety. Anyone holding a driver's licence may purchase a car of any size or capacity, as long as it meets local design rules. There is no restriction on engine power or the capable speeds of motor vehicles and bikes, or bans on bull bar use. Poor driving attitudes may often cause disruption, carelessness and accidents. Selfish, aggressive driver behaviour on our roads is all too frequently seen. Courtesy and respect for others often appears replaced by a vengeful lust for road dominance, based on anonymity. There is an argument that people need to be taught the correct ways to drive, rather than only be sanctioned and penalised. However, currently, the primary response appears to be a push for tougher punitive sanctions against those responsible for road deaths and injuries. Maybe both measures have a role. Note too, that the design of vehicles and roads also affects driver performance and outcomes.

Rest of the article
It's a lengthy read, yes I am an opinionated bitch, I've never professed to be a saint.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog Everything above was just a mean joke

Alright I won't bother replying then because it's nonsense

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Originally posted by Lilith 4wds kill people quite effectively and cause substantial amounts of accidents to the point where it has been debated in parliament over here. Rest of the article It's a lengthy read, yes I am an opinionated bitch, I've never professed to be a saint.

it is due to their driving skills, or lack thereof, and their attitude.


people cryin' about how they feel weak in their vehicles is lame,
it is them that feel weak, no matter the vehicle.

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Originally posted by VAR it is due to their driving skills, or lack thereof, and their attitude. people cryin' about how they feel weak in their vehicles is lame, it is them that feel weak, no matter the vehicle.

Yes, and they go looking for what is essentially an item which will perceivably bolster that weakness.
Cant drive, hit things/other people often- buy a 4WD
Look poor, are poor, everyone else has one- buy a 4WD
Angry, frustrated, feel like killing people- buy a 4WD
Feel like you're going to be killed by a 4WD- buy a 4WD

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There is a less clear but loud claim that 4WD drivers tend to be more aggressive than those in regular vehicles. Certainly the bulk and height of 4WD vehicles may appear intimidating to other users and be used to force them out of the way.

The statistics in that report are far from what I'd call reliable, as many of them are potentially misleading, strangely worded, or just sound quite suspicious (35% of SUVs & 13% of cars involved in fatal rollover crashes?).

That point above is also exactly what I'm referring to. There's nothing to support it but the consensus of a group with myriad other reasons to already dislike SUVs and the people who drive them.

would you two get a room already? fuck. LOL

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Originally posted by VAR it is due to their driving skills, or lack thereof, and their attitude. people cryin' about how they feel weak in their vehicles is lame, it is them that feel weak, no matter the vehicle.

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Originally posted by Lilith Yes, and they go looking for what is essentially an item which will perceivably bolster that weakness. Cant drive, hit things/other people often- buy a 4WD Look poor, are poor, everyone else has one- buy a 4WD Angry, frustrated, feel like killing people- buy a 4WD Feel like you're going to be killed by a 4WD- buy a 4WD

@ both.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous First, there are two aspects to safety--avoiding accidents and controlling the damage. Some people think it's safer to have a car that can avoid hitting something, some people think it's safer to have something that, if it is involved in an accident, will more effectively protect the people inside. I've never seen any statistics as to which is a more effective method, and it would be difficult to measure, since it would require quantifying the severity of injuries.

I don’t think sedans are necessarily better at avoiding accidents, they are just safer when you do have an accident, both for you and the people around you, far safer than SUVs in that way.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous People buy things they don't need, and should be able to. It's not illegal to own an SUV, and there are people who have legitimate uses for them. There's no way to effectively differentiate between the two, so unless you want to ban SUVs entirely, then it's just short-sighted.

You can’t ban SUVs entirely, that’s ridiculous. I’m just having some fun moaning about the people who do buy them who really have no need.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous As it is with ignorance, bad driving is a universal attribute. Bad drivers drive all sorts of vehicles, so labeling any one group as being worse than any other is the product of bias, not reason.

SUV/4WD drivers aren’t necessarily worse than sedan drivers, it’s just that those cars are harder to drive due to the fact that they are bigger and slower. You need to brake more proactively than in a normal sedan, and treat the car well in corners etc. Also they are harder to park.

Therein lies my point…not everyone can drive an SUV properly, so they shouldn’t, in the same way that some people who can’t even drive a normal car shouldn’t.

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I drive a Corolla.

I feel like it's too big sometimes. Ie, I have to move my 65kg or so body to work, but I have to lug another 1500kg with me.

But then it's like, will it rain on me if I take a motorcycle? I'll be more safe in a car, it's comfortable, helps moving house, going to the shop etc. It's rather complicated.

Some things about SUV safety though:
-car crumple zones are designed for collisions with cars, suvs often override them
-suv suspension is stiffer, even small collisions can result in damage to the occupants
-more likely to roll

My gut feeling is that cars are safer, the 'safety' in an SUV is just in your head.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog I don’t think sedans are necessarily better at avoiding accidents, they are just safer when you do have an accident, both for you and the people around you, far safer than SUVs in that way.

I'd say they are better at avoiding some types of accidents, and that's why there's a debate. Obviously, if you get broadsided at an intersection, there's nothing you can do, but if something goes flying in front of you (like the mattress that came off the truck in front of my mom a few months ago), or somebody suddenly just veers over into your lane, a vehicle with good handling has a better ability to avoid the accident in the first place. When you have an accident, though, an SUV is safer for you, so the 2nd part of that statement doesn't make sense, either.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog You can’t ban SUVs entirely, that’s ridiculous. I’m just having some fun moaning about the people who do buy them who really have no need.

That's my point, though. You can't ban them entirely, so there will always be people who buy them for no practical purpose, so people need to get over that fact.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog SUV/4WD drivers aren’t necessarily worse than sedan drivers, it’s just that those cars are harder to drive due to the fact that they are bigger and slower. You need to brake more proactively than in a normal sedan, and treat the car well in corners etc. Also they are harder to park. Therein lies my point…not everyone can drive an SUV properly, so they shouldn’t, in the same way that some people who can’t even drive a normal car shouldn’t.

I guess that's a valid point. At the same time, though, I would point out that those things are all fairly obvious, and that most people will adjust to the car. If you feel the weight shifting on a corner, you're not likely to just keep on as you were, expecting it to work itself out, since it's a car. People aren't too bright, but they're not intentionally stupid.

They are harder to park, and that's the other major reason you rarely see them in cities (aside from the fact that there's less practical use).

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Originally posted by inconspicuous I'd say they are better at avoiding some types of accidents, and that's why there's a debate. Obviously, if you get broadsided at an intersection, there's nothing you can do, but if something goes flying in front of you (like the mattress that came off the truck in front of my mom a few months ago), or somebody suddenly just veers over into your lane, a vehicle with good handling has a better ability to avoid the accident in the first place. When you have an accident, though, an SUV is safer for you, so the 2nd part of that statement doesn't make sense, either.

I disagree, I think that for the driver, a sedan is safer than an SUV, as the guy two posts up said.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous I guess that's a valid point. At the same time, though, I would point out that those things are all fairly obvious, and that most people will adjust to the car. If you feel the weight shifting on a corner, you're not likely to just keep on as you were, expecting it to work itself out, since it's a car. People aren't too bright, but they're not intentionally stupid. They are harder to park, and that's the other major reason you rarely see them in cities (aside from the fact that there's less practical use).

I agree, people aren't intentionally stupid, yet they still are.

How often do you see people doing stupid shit like using the phone and touching the CD player the same time, with no hands on the wheel?

Pretty often.

Elementary car safety: keep your hands on the wheel. If they can't do that, how can they drive an SUV?

It’s crazy to think that a person with no interest in cars (most people) is going to know, or care, about how the car handles and adjust their driving accordingly. They will still brake too late, they will still tailgate, and they will still change lanes without indicating. People in general are shit drivers.

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