quote:

Originally posted by mezzir one thought i thought was interesting: if you try to succeed, you risk failure, you risk not having control. the only way you can truly ensure having control over your life is by setting out to fail, to be self-destructive. you may destroy everything good in your life, but you can look around and have confidence that you have more control over your life than anyone you see.

That's interesting and quite similar to my gf's life philosophy. I used to argue over that with her a lot

She declared that in order to be happier you had to set lowest possible expectations for everything you do in your life. Then, the failure wouldn't mean any disappointment and everything you succeeded in would be just a nice surprise.

But I see no point in being inevitably self-destructive as that doesn't give you any confidence you actually wouldn't fail in that as well. It's just the opposite way of thinking to what majority of people try to achieve but it doesn't imo solve anything.

More suitable would be to restrain from any action. Then, perhaps, you could be more secure about having control over your life.

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quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews She declared that in order to be happier you had to set lowest possible expectations for everything you do in your life. Then, the failure wouldn't mean any disappointment and everything you succeeded in would be just a nice surprise.

The fatal flaw in that plan is that for the most part, any 'nice surprises' will only be small.

Low targets mean less reward.

I'll try and explain.

Say you are doing an exam, you set yourself a low expectation of 50%, and you end up getting 60%, this is a nice surprise.

But, by setting the low expectation in the first place, you are far less likely to achieve say 80%, as you weren't aiming that high in the first place.

So whilst the theory does tend to limit disappointment, it also limits a person to mediocrity as the upper echelons are too far out of reach.

In other words, you cannot experience and appreciate the very best life has to offer, without at least experiencing some of the shit.

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quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews *snipped for brevity*

Silly attitude to aim for under-achievement rather than a realistic life goal really, mediocrity solves nothing more than basic survival and ultimately leads to discontent at some level, which manifests as... insecurity.
Another poor basis for success and gathering a rolling snowball of insecurity is using other people's success as a yardstick, rather than taking the initiative to come up with your own, which are far more realistic and achievable to your own measure of success.
There's just too many variable to compare one persons perceived success against your own to even start analysing at any depth, life, luck and good management play just a big a part as loss, getting a bad deal, poor start and making a mistake.

Because if you don't come to terms with failure, then you're doomed to either under-achieve and go nowhere, ultimately landing you in insecurity due to an inability to adapt. Or, you end up aiming for something which is completely unrealistic, fanciful and unattainable goal for someone with your life experience, skills and management capabilities.
Set goals you can do well.
Focus on them knowing you can succeed to a level which you regard as success and be aware, that things can change so you will need to adapt on the fly with some tactical planning if need be.
Some things will change in life beyond your control and be prepared to fail because of them, coping with failure is hard and most people don't have the guts to deal with it. It knocks them on their arse and out of the game, but you know what. At least they tried and if life serves you up that baseball to the back of the head, then it's not your fault, the only fault is you not being aware and even then, you can notch that up to a life experience, learning and next time you'll know to duck. Rather than bemoaning how terrible it all is and squandering whatever minutes of happiness are left to you in life.

One last thing people should do at some point without any outside opinion is a critical, hard, no BS assessment of themselves and what they are actually capable of.
Regardless of the government, school institutionalised rote learning and political correct pussy-footing around the subject like its a taboo as terrible as incest.
Come to terms with yourself.
If you're stupid, ignorant, lazy, expect things to come to you, have the attention span of a goldfish and wander around in a dream thinking you're going to be young, tough and healthy forever.
Then it might be time to really consider where you're going in life to improve those personal lacklustre aspects in order to succeed in your life by your standards. Because there will always be those that get a kick in the guts at the start, bemoan that they never get a fair deal and luck always dumps on them.
Well here's something you should know.
Life is always going to be kicking you when you're down, if you let it and if you fail to manage it in such a way that you can cope with those blows. Because life is hard and chances are, you're no where near hard enough to deal with it straight out of the box.

Its also completely acceptable to ask for help when it all gets too damn hard and no person is an island.

quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n The fatal flaw in that plan is that for the most part, any 'nice surprises' will only be small. Low targets mean less reward. I'll try and explain. Say you are doing an exam, you set yourself a low expectation of 50%, and you end up getting 60%, this is a nice surprise. But, by setting the low expectation in the first place, you are far less likely to achieve say 80%, as you weren't aiming that high in the first place. So whilst the theory does tend to limit disappointment, it also limits a person to mediocrity as the upper echelons are too far out of reach. In other words, you cannot experience and appreciate the very best life has to offer, without at least experiencing some of the shit.

Maybe I should have added that I disagreed with her and used a similar logic as you to oppose her back then. I just mentioned it because mezzir's post reminded me of it. It's not something I stand for.

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

Yeah again Lira, I understood perfectly well what you meant, it's not a language thing...I don't agree with what you've said at all. You can't speak for everyone. God, I'm actually really annoyed by you saying that. What makes you think that just because "you can't see it", it isn't possible?? Pretty arrogant.

Just because YOU'RE insecure, doesn't mean everybody else is.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Just because YOU'RE insecure, doesn't mean everybody else is.

Set phasers to 'multiply insecurity of target exponentially'

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quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Yeah again Lira, I understood perfectly well what you meant, it's not a language thing...I don't agree with what you've said at all. You can't speak for everyone. God, I'm actually really annoyed by you saying that. What makes you think that just because "you can't see it", it isn't possible?? Pretty arrogant. Just because YOU'RE insecure, doesn't mean everybody else is.

I said it is possible (in the end of the 3^rd paragraph after quoting you) albeit unlikely, because I do give others the benefit of doubt before making such bold statement. Like when Mayakovsky says that he's heard that there's this one happy person in the world, maybe there is someone who is really secure. I just find it unlikely, and I'd love to hear a different point of view, if you think I'm being unfair.

Anyway, sorry if I have somehow irritated you, I just want to talk about this little idea of mine

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Insecure: Knowing your weaknesses and worrying about them, or fabricating false weaknesses and worrying about them.

Secure: Knowing your weaknesses and how to manage them effectively.

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Yes, everyone has weaknesses, but insecurity is something much different.

Insecurity has a lot to do with judging others, and like was mentioned, social order and 'norms'. In a lot of ways I am very comfortable with myself, but in a lot of ways very insecure. Personally I have always found that my insecurity is one of my most productive characteristics, because I am rather ambitious and obsessive, and when something bothers me, it is usually inevitable that I turn it around.

by far the biggest insecurity i have is my background as a white, suburban middle class male from ohio. I mean, I have been a bit of an iconoclast even since preschool, and for some reason it just bothers me in the extreme that no matter where I can possibly go in my life, and regardless of what I do, I will always be part of a world which I don't agree with or identify with at all.

this was a force which compelled me to read different things, listen to different music, go to school out of state, have international friends, wear certain clothes (or rather not wear certain clothes), travel, a force which has always made me wish to separate myself from the group with which I believe others would associate me. I don't even like to speak english when I don't have to. In most cases it's not even a conscious thing, but a deeply rooted part of my personality.

i am a bit of a nut case sometimes

In the cases where insecurity is debilitating, I think that's unfortunate, but I can think of many cases where insecurity is empowering.


Fuck, I can think of examples where insecurity changed the course of human history.

hitler anyone?

(edit ok that was an example of where I wish his insecurity had stopped him from obtaining power )

Last edited by nefardec on Sep-07-2007 at 15:06

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I just find it unlikely, and I'd love to hear a different point of view, if you think I'm being unfair.

Feeling secure isn't some complex way of life. It's not your place to believe it or not.

Ohhhh well LIRA finds it unlikely, so it must not be true!! Honestly, who do you think you are?? Keep on finding it unlikely if you want...because just like you, it's not my place to change your mind about it.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Honestly, who do you think you are??

Someone who posted an idea in a trance music forum so I could talk about it with other people.

Am I missing something?

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