quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN um, who do you think owns the federal reserve btw??

International bankers and their shareholders.

Bertie Charles Forbes (who later founded the Forbes Magazine; the present editor, Malcom Forbes, is his son), wrote:

"Picture a party of the nation’s greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily hieing hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written . . . . The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York’s ubiquitous reporters had been foiled . . . Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry . . . . Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He more than any one man has made the system possible as a working reality."

Reference:

"CURRENT OPINION", December, 1916, p. 382.

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Originally posted by Krypton International bankers and their shareholders.

ive already posted an explanation of what these "shareholders" are. And theyre not a bunch of secret cult anonymous members. It receives oversight from congress (or over here the house and/or senate). It is not a privately owned and operated company in the way you are trying to make out. But again, im no economist so take that argument to occrider because I am unable to do it justice.

In all seriousness, id love to see how an ecomomy is meant to function without a central bank!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ive already posted an explanation of what these "shareholders" are. And theyre not a bunch of secret cult anonymous members. It receives oversight from congress (or over here the house and/or senate). It is not a privately owned and operated company in the way you are trying to make out. But again, im no economist so take that argument to occrider because I am unable to do it justice. In all seriousness, id love to see how an ecomomy is meant to function without a central bank!

Thanks for being the voice of reason. Clearly he has not sat in any financial institutions courses or else he would have learned how the fed functions and why it is necessary.

The system was put into place after banks were repeatedly making poor investments and were simply unable and unwilling to pay depositors their money when time came to withdraw. Without a Federal Reserve, the incidents of September 11 would have triggered a stock market panic, just as it did, investors would have wanted to pull their money out of the market and the economy as a whole (banks included). Because of the sudden rush of depositors attempting to withdraw their money from the banks, and because the banks have their own investments tied up in the market, they are unable to pay all of these investors at once. The market becomes illiquid and chaos is about to ensue. However, because the Fed does exist, it was able to provide discount loans to these banks and also provide liquidity to the stock market, there was no doomsday situation. There was no complete collapse of the stock market. Everyday people with money in the bank did not loose all their money as they did in the Great Depression. Life went on with little more than a hiccup. You take away the Fed, you loose that safety net. Try studying the reason things exist before you call for their annihilation.

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Lost Souls

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Since you don't believe me, I'll let a Constitutional scholar, rather than Wikipedia, make the argument for me. The following from Charles Beard: Excerpted from Charles Beard's "Framing the Constitution," in Peter Woll, ed., American Government: Readings and Cases, 11th ed. (New York: Harper Collins, 1993)

I'd say we have two choices



a propaganda technique:

quote:

An appeal to authority also known as argument from authority, argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument from modesty) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself, said it), is one method of obtaining propositional knowledge. Example of appeals to authority: Referencing scientific research published in a peer reviewed journal. "Science (in the form of an article in a prestigious journal) says X, therefore X is so"

or a logical fallacy:

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Appeal to Misleading Authority Appeal to Authority Argument from Authority Argumentum ad Verecundiam Translation: "Argument from respect/modesty" (Latin) Ipse Dixit Translation: "He, himself, said it" (Latin) Type: Genetic Fallacy Form: Authority A believes that P is true. Therefore, P is true. #3 The authority is an expert, but is not disinterested. That is, the expert is biased towards one side of the issue, and his opinion is thereby untrustworthy. For example, suppose that a medical scientist testifies that ambient cigarette smoke does not pose a hazard to the health of non-smokers exposed to it. Suppose, further, that it turns out that the scientist is an employee of a cigarette company. Clearly, the scientist has a powerful bias in favor of the position that he is taking which calls into question his objectivity. There is an old saying: "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient," and a similar version for attorneys: "A lawyer who defends himself has a fool for a client." Why should these be true if the doctor or lawyer is an expert on medicine or the law? The answer is that we are all biased in our own causes. A physician who tries to diagnose his own illness is more likely to make a mistake out of wishful thinking, or out of fear, than another physician would be. http://www.fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html

A little about Mr. Beard:

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Charles Austin Beard (November 27, 1874 – September 1, 1948) is widely regarded, along with Frederick Jackson Turner, as one of the two most influential American historians of the early 20th century. While Beard published hundreds of monographs, textbooks and interpretive studies in both history and political science, he is most widely known for his radical re-evaluation of the Founding Fathers of the United States, whom he believed were more motivated by economics than by philosophical principles.

Those elite bankers couldn't possibly have a little more sway in the scholastic community than they do, could they? It would be fitting if that man (or his department) was rewarded with a large grant or a private endowment after that POS was published.

quote:

"It is not what the man of science believes that distinguishes him, but how and why he believes it. His beliefs are tentative, not dogmatic; they are based on evidence, not on authority or intuition." - Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy, p. 527

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Yes, keep following that herd. No, that's not a cliff they're going over, it's more like a big, fun, basejumping platform! Wooo hooo! Oh no, don't worry about not having a parachute yet because we promise that we'll give it to you before you get to the bottom. What, don't you trust us? You saw how ready and eager we were to help everyone in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, didn't you? What a freaking joke.

Isn't it amusing how trancer cries like a girl when people call him names, but its ok to abuse people and call them sheep or stupid? For some reason he doesn’t see similarity. Too busy fastening that tinfoil hat no doubt. I am also yet to see him provide any of his own arguments that weren't centred around posting pages of dull text from somebody else's brain. Interesting.

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I wish men like Louis T. McFadden were still alive!!!

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Congressional Record, House pages 1295 and 1296 on June 10, 1932: Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government Board, has cheated the Government of the United States and he people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the maladministration of that law by which the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it. Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions, departments, or agencies. They are private credit monopolies, which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. Those 12 private credit monopolies were deceitfully placed upon this country by bankers who came here from Europe and who repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I wish men like Louis T. McFadden were still alive!!!

yeah, he'd be in a mental institution...or a University professor

quote:

McFadden was known as openly antisemitic. He claimed that Jews controlled the American economy, and that the United States had to choose between "God and the money changers who have unlawfully taken our gold and lawful money into their possession."[1] McFadden also blamed Jews for president Roosevelt's decision to abandon the gold standard, and claimed that "in the United States today, the Gentiles have the slips of paper while the Jews have the lawful money."[2] McFadden is also remembered for his criticism of the Federal Reserve, which he claimed was created and operated by European banking interests who conspired to economically control the United States. On June 10, 1932, McFadden made a 25-minute speech before the House of Representatives, in which he accused the Federal Reserve of deliberately causing the Great Depression. McFadden also claimed that Wall Street bankers funded the Bolshevik Revolution through the Federal Reserve banks and the European central banks with which it cooperated. In 1932, he moved to impeach President Herbert Hoover, and also introduced a resolution bringing conspiracy charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve. The impeachment resolution was defeated by the overwhelming vote of 361 to 8; it thus became a big vote of confidence to President Hoover from the House.[3] In 1933, he introduced House Resolution No. 158, Articles of impeachment for the Secretary of the Treasury, two assistant Secretaries of the Treasury, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, and the officers and directors of its twelve regional banks.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Obtain Disapproval: This technique is used to get the audience to disapprove an action or idea by suggesting the idea is popular with groups hated, feared, or held in contempt by the target audience. Thus, if a group which supports a policy is led to believe that undesirable, subversive, or contemptible people also support it, the members of the group might decide to change their position.

it's all propaganda dude. there is always someone vying for your attention.

quote:

"This campaign against the American people - against traditional American culture and values - is systematic psychological warfare. It is orchestrated by a vast array of interest comprising not only the Eastern establishment but also the radical left. Among this group we find the Department of State, the Department of Commerce, the money center banks and multinational corporations, the media, the educational establishment, the entertainment industry, and the large tax-exempt foundations." "Mr. President, a careful examination of what is happening behind the scenes reveals that all of these interests are working in concert with the masters of the Kremlin in order to create what some refer to as a new world order. Private organizations such as the Council on Foreign Relation, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, the Trilateral Commission, the Dartmouth Conference, the Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies, the Atlantic Institute, and the Bilderberger Group serve to disseminate and to coordinate the plans for this so-called new world order in powerful business, financial, academic, and official circles...." "The psychological campaign that I am describing, as I have said, is the work of groups within the Eastern establishment, that amorphous amalgam of wealth and social connections whose power resides in its control over our financial system and over a large portion of our industrial sector. The principal instrument of this control over the American economy and money is the Federal Reserve System. The policies of the industrial sectors, primarily the multinational corporations, are influenced by the money centers through debt financing and through the large blocks of stock controlled by the trust departments of the money center banks. Anyone familiar with American history, and particularly American economic history, cannot fail to notice the control over the Department of State and the Central Intelligence Agency which Wall Street seems to exercise.... The influence of establishment insiders over our foreign policy has become a fact of life in our time. This pervasive influence runs contrary to the real long-term national security of our Nation. It is an influence which, if unchecked, could ultimately subvert our constitutional order. The viewpoint of the establishment today is called globalism. Not so long ago, this viewpoint was called the "one-world" view by its critics. The phrase is no longer fashionable among sophisticates; yet, the phrase "one-world" is still apt because nothing has changed in the minds and actions of those promoting policies consistent with its fundamental tenets." "Mr. President, in the globalist point of view, nation-states and national boundaries do not count for anything. Political philosophies and political principles seem to become simply relative. Indeed, even constitutions are irrelevant to the exercise of power. Liberty and tyranny are viewed as neither necessarily good nor evil, and certainly not a component of policy. In this point of view, the activities of international financial and industrial forces should be orientatef to bringing this one-world design - with a convergence of the Soviet and American Systems as its centerpiece - into being.....All that matters to this club is the maximization of profits resulting from the practice of what can be described as finance capitalism, a system which rests upon the twin pillars of debt and monopoly. This isn't real capitalism. It is the road to economic concentration and to political slavery." - Senator Jesse Helms December 15, 1987 (From his speach before the Senate)

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Originally posted by Q5echo yeah, he'd be in a mental institution...or a University professor

Does that instantly mean that he had to have been wrong about the Federal Reserve?

I don't see how that correlates?

"It has indeed been a trying hour for the Republic; but I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

- President Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to William F. Elkins on November 21, 1864

(speaking about the European financiers)

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Originally posted by Trancer-X Does that instantly mean that he had to have been wrong about the Federal Reserve? I don't see how that correlates?

i meant mental institution or uni-professor as more of a joke, but youre right, it doesn't correlate. he doesn't correlate.

he was a flaming anti-semite that alledged their [the Joos] taking over of the US monetary system, but at the same time blamed European banks executing economic hegemony when clearly the biggest banks in Europe (France, UK, Swiss) were not controled by the Joos.

i don't think the Joos controlled any bank at that time.

the guy was a nut.

but go ahead, he's your demigod.