quote:

Originally posted by RJT Fuck do I hate threads like these. To answer whoever the hell it was that asked why I thought Dawkins was a twat it's simply because he's every bit as closed minded as the people he rails against. And with that, I'm done. You kids enjoy your little argument.

completely oversimplifying to the point of utter nonsense
he's merely close minded to arguments that offer no evidence to substantiate their claims.
I'm pretty down with that sort of close-mindedness

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good job trying to conflate the historical origin of a system with the logical foundation of a system.

moot point in this discussion. I'm guessing you're thinking you're one of the intelligent ones? Good for you!

Someone give MrJiveBoJingles a sticker!

Go ahead and make an argument that you have to be religious in order to be ethical and law-abiding. I dare ya.

*gives mr jive a sticker* coz he has yet to be wrong in any of these threads.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN utter nonsense. religion has nothing to do with the evolution of "moral" values. religious people just like to think this. think about some of the moral "laws" set out by those who wrote the koran and bible (for instance). there are plenty of guidelines we dismiss because they are completely alien to our modern view of morality. we set these "laws" aside due to rational thought. religion is not responsible for values.

You don't believe in the divine source of the Quran and Bible (I don't think it's fair to say "those who wrote" them because I'm sure you imply that the messages contained therein were to satisfy some human's agenda, which I completely disagree with) so I don't see a rational argument continuing on this aspect of the issue (as our definitions of rationality are fundamentality different).

Another thing I thought of as I was analyzing your obsession with Star Wars and sci-fi...what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

I wish I could find the article online that I read the other day in Time or MacLean's...totally relevant to this discussion.

It was basically a study done on the nature of what makes us "good" or "evil". And there were a lot of good points about the innate sense of right and wrong.

So yeah...you don't need religion to have morals/ethics/etc.

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

The Tao is probably the closest religious or philosophical analogue to the "Force."

quote:

Originally posted by Az completely oversimplifying to the point of utter nonsense he's merely close minded to arguments that offer no evidence to substantiate their claims. I'm pretty down with that sort of close-mindedness

Whatever you'd like to believe is fine with me.

___________________
last minute disco dot net

quote:

Originally posted by fayraree You don't believe in the divine source of the Quran and Bible (I don't think it's fair to say "those who wrote" them because I'm sure you imply that the messages contained therein were to satisfy some human's agenda, which I completely disagree with) so I don't see a rational argument continuing on this aspect of the issue (as our definitions of rationality are fundamentality different).

of course i don't believe in the divine source, but that is irrelevant to the discussion regarding morality. religion is not a source for it, otherwise we would be having sex with children like mohammed did, stoning prostitutes, offering our daughters to sodomites, having sex with our children etc etc etc.

if we are "picking and choosing" which components of the holy book to adhere to, by what yardstick are we measuring appropriate morality? -rationality.

quote:

Another thing I thought of as I was analyzing your obsession with Star Wars and sci-fi...what do you think the "Force" is a metaphor for?

the force isnt a metaphor. it is an energy field that binds the universe together. life creates it, makes it grow. luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. you must feel the force around you.

in any case, i love religion and gods and magic in fantasy. it is an immense source of enjoyment for me. in real life though its just bollocks, and causing far too many problems that the human race could do without.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Whatever you'd like to believe is fine with me.

you are no fun

quote:

Originally posted by Az you are no fun

I just know better than to get too deep into these conversations with folks who are clearly committed to one view.

___________________
last minute disco dot net

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in any case, i love religion and gods and magic in fantasy. it is an immense source of enjoyment for me. in real life though its just bollocks, and causing far too many problems that the human race could do without.

Honestly, my heart shuddered here. So beautifully put. I'm standing on another front of the same side of you in this war. The only difference between you and me is that I don't think there is something inherently wrong with religion, but with the people who think they're doing the right thing. I agree, that some people have taken the religion too far and caused problems, but I disagree that the only way to get rid of those problems is to get rid of religion.

I'll comment on your other stuff, which I honestly think you need a reality check on because you are taking things so far out of context that...uh...I don't even know how to make a joke about it! LOL