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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Stupid thread. Maybe EDM has a low percentage of women because it's full of dinky twerps who like to bloviate about why having testicles makes a person better at music.

Why? Because it's such a ridiculous notion that men and women are... different?

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Originally posted by distant Why? Because it's such a ridiculous notion that men and women are... different?

+1

You could easily have a project name that is not obviously female and then people would realise your talented.

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Originally posted by distant Why? Because it's such a ridiculous notion that men and women are... different?

Actually, it is. As I said, any cognitive or physical differences are easily trumped by those that exist between all people in general, regardless of gender. The fact is, either gender can be good at anything in the world, so long as they put the tools they were born with to good use.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis Actually, it is. As I said, any cognitive or physical differences are easily trumped by those that exist between all people in general, regardless of gender. The fact is, either gender can be good at anything in the world, so long as they put the tools they were born with to good use.

Quite a few people have noticed that good producers tend to be male. As there's a small amount of women producing EDM, it's hard to do a direct comparison, but then the question becomes why aren't more women getting into production? I mostly agree with you on seeing possibilities rather than limitations (though as I said, I'm open to discussing the fundamental differences between the genders), I'm just talking about tendencies here.

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Originally posted by distant Quite a few people have noticed that good producers tend to be male. As there's a small amount of women producing EDM, it's hard to do a direct comparison, but then the question becomes why aren't more women getting into production? I mostly agree with you on seeing possibilities rather than limitations (though as I said, I'm open to discussing the fundamental differences between the genders), I'm just talking about tendencies here.

Well, this is an entirely different debate. I would argue that it applies not just to EDM but almost every proffesion in the world. For years, in America especially, we have been pushing the "woman stays at home tends to the kids//strong male goes out and welds steel or whetever the fuck to make money and put food on the table"

Its a social issue that has been plaguing us for a while...and hindering the push towards complete and total gender equality in the professional space. I for one think more girls should get into it...

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis Actually, it is. As I said, any cognitive or physical differences are easily trumped by those that exist between all people in general, regardless of gender. The fact is, either gender can be good at anything in the world, so long as they put the tools they were born with to good use.

You have to rein yourself in a bit here. Women are physically incapable of being good at penis puppetry.

Similarly, men cannot have babies.

I think I've proven my point.

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www.jexmusic.com - My website

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Originally posted by Darkarbiter I think pop music isn't a very good thing to survey. There are tons of females who are only popular because they are hot. Also I'm pretty sure females more often like female artists and quite a bit of pop music is actually written by the female singer. Also Madonna is a terrible example... she hardly writes any of her own stuff. Britney only writes some... and jlo... who gives a shit?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough...


What I meant to say is that many genres of music tend to have a disproportionate number of male to female artists within them, and that EDM isn't the only genre with a male bias. "Britney, Jlo and Madonna notwithstanding" means that they are a limited example of "successful" women in music. Look at every single genre around and you'll probably notice that most of them have a heavy male bias; pop and country are perhaps the only two I can think of that might be more balanced.


cor version: I am NOT SAYING JLO IS A GOOD MUSICIAN.

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Originally posted by distant Quite a few people have noticed that good producers tend to be male. As there's a small amount of women producing EDM, it's hard to do a direct comparison, but then the question becomes why aren't more women getting into production? I mostly agree with you on seeing possibilities rather than limitations (though as I said, I'm open to discussing the fundamental differences between the genders), I'm just talking about tendencies here.

Well suffice to say that if you suck your probably going to be turned off producing.

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Originally posted by Peter Chambers Oh, and one last salient feature of the year has been the phenomenal number of female players now well and truly in the game. I’m going to forget heaps of people, but these are the names that immediately spring to mind: Ada, Ellen Allien, Magda, Jennifer Cardini, Anja Schneider, Shinedoe, MIA, Margaret Dygas, Cassy, Dinky, Estroe, Akikyo Kiyama, Kate Simko, Ana and Julietta, Miskate, Chloe, Cio D'or – and there’s more.

source: http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature-read.aspx?id=863

Vaccine is really good.

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."

This is a good occasion to post some of this (slightly long) writeup by Nic Endo (Atari Teenage Riot) about Fatal. It's written in your typical angry feminist style, but she does nevertheless raise some valid points:

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Even before my record was actually released, I noticed that some guys had a real problem with handling the fact that a girl can do music or noise just as "hardcore" as they do! Instead of just being honest or accepting it like it is, they are trying to make you feel insecure by trivialising everything you do or of sheer ignorance and indifference. It’s the same thing with my position in ATR: They think: A girl behind all this equipment??? What is she doing there??? But I can’t take that seriously… They’re gonna shit in their pants anyway…!!! They just can’t ignore it anymore. That's one of the reasons why DHR FATAL now exists: I see this DHR FATAL movement also as a statement against such silly attempts at oppression and intimidation by men that still too many girls take too serious and fail because of this... The image of how a woman should look like and how she has to behave and act in this society is mainly created by men and is supported by a lot of women. These images and role models seem so unnatural and humiliating to me that I really don’t understand why so many girls want to deal and identify with it. It’s a men’s world we’re living in with all its consequences and I’m sick of the fact that so many girls just don’t seem to care!!!!!!!!!!!! The music industry and their media mostly impart a weak, stupid and "sexy" image of a woman. Most of the time I see women just as a kind of a dressed up accessory in some music videos who just have to stand there, look good and shut up. There’s a total lack of courageous and strong women in the music business with real serious statements that don’t give a shit what other people tell them to do. Particularly in the electronic music business: If women are not taken seriously and if men continue to exclude us from it and if we, as girls, give up at this point the same thing will happen what happened to rock ‘ n ‘ roll: White male dominance!!!!!!!!! To create music with electronic equipment and computers... For me this seemed almost a mystery. I always imagined it was so difficult and complicated, and I must admit it really intimidated me at the start. This was not the technology itself, but rather what others (only men) made of it and how it was presented to me. It was an insurmountable obstacle, something I’d never grasp because I’m a girl... Men could never really hide how flattered they felt when I’d ask them for help. 'Cause that was their big moment – the chance to act like complete idiots in front of me. They could play at being the competent one; live out every neurosis they had about their image. And at the same time constantly deliver the subliminal vibe they had already given up on me, that all their explanations were worth nothing in the end. They'd start by saying how everything's no problem at all, super easy – then start to explain, making it all doubly complicated and tedious. They'd go through the minutest technical non-details, giving you completely useless information like the year of construction, the company history and so on. Finally they'd show you a couple of "easy games" you could play – if you were really on top of it (like they themselves were!)... They'd talk on and on, in the end just delivering an endless monologue. Mental masturbation, intellectual jerk offs. I'd turn and go. Sorry, but it's ridiculous! This I do not need! In the end it had nothing to do with helping me – it was a purely egoistic demonstration of power - and nothing more. They want to keep "their last bastion of power" as far away from women as possible. Now women think they can deal with the rules of machinery!?!? No woman has ever been born with a phobia for technology or "less gifted" technologically. I think that some girls simply have no interest in it, while other girls avoid it from the very beginning. This is because from when they were babies they were made to believe they were too stupid to understand it, and that technical things are "men's work". I can't think of any other explanation as to why, in comparison to men, there are far too few women in area of music. And in fact it really doesn't matter whether I now produce the music myself or simply accompany – sing – to the music. The text comes from me, that is what it is really about. You select the samples yourself and let somebody else produce the music, and despite that none of your ideas and sentiments slip from your grasp... It's important that girls finally apply all their personality, aims and ideas to utilize different musical means than the conventional (musical) instruments whose creative potential is always limited after a certain point. Just like how the subversive potential of music will at some point run dry unless you move beyond certain pre-determined musical limitations. Electronic radical music, digital hardcore can be made with and by women. They must operate alone as a counter-balance to the still male dominated electronic and hardcore fields. Only then can a true unity exist which works all the more powerfully, with all the more strength. For girls who are interested in making their own music but who have not yet become fully switched on to this: Don't let yourselves get filled up with bullshit! Ignore those pretentious male games! Many things you can work out by yourself over time when you try out the equipment in a relaxed, playful manner. The best things often happen as a result of mistakes, experiments and coincidences. At the start, pretty simple and reasonably priced equipment can be used to create music. You could use for instance a pocket sampler (Yamaha su-10 recommended), a four track recorder, an effects machine or pedal, and possibly a mixer, synthesiser and keyboards, microphone, tape or DAT recorder. To be able to handle certain musical technology, or to believe you can, is one thing – so that you are able to relate to other people. To be able to transpose your feelings and energy is another job... And since I’m on the subject, it is totally political to be aware of who is twiddling with the controls, turning the switches. A revolution resulting from the further development of music – and that ideology as a weapon that can produce changes on a political and creative level – all of this is meaningless if women are not an active part of it all! Begin the revolution here among us first! Nic Endo December 1998

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."