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Originally posted by Irishaddict what?

LOL no not you.

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Originally posted by Irishaddict right. and i go back - how did pvd get to the point of getting bookings in the first place? Do you honestly believe that no one watched the sales of the tracks - in order to rank their level of "popularity" and thereby decide to book the dj? That there aren't entire companies who monitor radioplay - in order to compensate the artists accordingly? I'm an idealist at heart but seriously the logic is ass-backwards on this one.

actually laura.

if it wasn't for napster in 1999, i probably would never have discovered either pvd or edm and would probably still be listening to hiphop/rap.

so to counter your argument, you would have to say that pvd grew into who he is today b/c alot of people discovered his music by downloading his songs (like me).

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hello thar

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Originally posted by Stilez As someone already mentioned, it's a double edged sword. On one hand, it helps promote small, independent artists who would otherwise never get exposure...but it also kills artists who are in the same boat but already have exposure and rely on sales to pay for any future work.

There is never enough exposure, there is no plateau in how big you can become. Making music is a hobby first of all not a job, people do it because they enjoy to do it, not because they think about how much money the track will make. The more people download the track for free in return the more people will buy it as well because the hype behind the track increases.

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Originally posted by Porky Exactly. Artists should produce music for the love of music, not solely for monetary reasons. If fans appreciate your music they will follow you, and you should be able to make your income from shows and gigs, which is wehre alot of artists seem to make their money from. Look at Prince. He gave away his last album for free, then proceeded to tour at sold out shows. Looks like this is the way of the future.

Since when was it your right to get music for free?

Also, the problem isn't having your fans support you, it's getting the fans in the first place. If you're a new artist, how exactly do you get exposure? Putting your tracks online for free? Right, because hundreds of people don't already do that right now.

Working with labels is a way to promote yourself and build a reputation and a name for yourself. You can't expect to have fans if nobody knows who you are.

As for your reference to Prince, he's pretty much one of the biggest names for music in the world. Of course he can release an album for free. Do you think he could do that as a nobody and expect the same result? If you think that's possible, you're living in an exceptionally delusional dreamworld.

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Originally posted by Porky I think people are changing their perceptions about music, valuing it as a free commodity. If you can listen to radio for free why pay for music?

I guess that's a matter of pespective. Radio is a good promotional tool, but again: how do you get your tracks on radio play when it's not coming from a proper label? You think mailing your tracks to radio stations is going to get you airplay? See delusional dreamworld comment above.

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Originally posted by Porky Chris, I agree with you in that if you're a dj yourself, that you should help support the producers. But to the mass audiences wehre do you draw the line? What is acceptable: supportinig the artists for a few tunes, an album? As music becomes completely accessible and requires only a small of time to obtain free music, at what point would you need to force monetary compensation for every single track that you release? maybe artists need to rethink how they value their music and realize a different model for revenue. Instead of trying to sell all of their music for $1 a track, they should give away their music for free to the public (ala Radiohead and Prince) and only force compensation from people that actually profit from their music (radio stations, DJs etc).

I don't understand your "where do you draw the line" comment. It was only a few years ago where there was NO option to pirate music, and did that bother people then? No, the PRICE of CD's did.

Monetary compensation wasn't forced upon the public, it was forced upon the artists FROM the public so they would attempt to buy music again.

Nobody should be forced to give anything away for free. What if you went into work and your boss said "you're doing such a great job that for the next 3 months I think you should do this for the good of the company, for free." How exactly would you respond? Something you've been working for/on for X amount of years now and you're told to just give what you do away for free. I hardly think you'd be pleased with that.

And again, Radiohead. You have to be joking. You're contradicting yourself by saying "new artists should shine through if they're good enough" and then you throw in one of the world's leading artists. As a side note, the releasing of their album online for free was a publicity stunt. Radiohead's latest album is in stores now.

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Originally posted by Porky Sure royalty cheques are important for an artist to survive, but on the flip side, maybe some artists should realize that their music sucks and not have to rely on royalty cheques and to rant and rave to force money from their fans. The internet is democratizing the music industry and unfortunately weeding out crappy artists who are demanding their slice of the pie. The bottom line is that if you produce quality tracks and earn the respect and adoration of your fans, the money will follow (via shows and gigs etc).

I'll go back to my comment regarding your job. What if your boss walked in and said "you know what, you're working for free" without any reason whatsoever. Should you thus assume that you suck at what you do because you've been told to provide your service for free? Give me a break.

I also disagree with your comment about "crappy artists". I'd say there are MORE artists these days than ever. And everyone who makes a beat in Reason thinks they can be the next Tiesto.

Your bottom line is flawwed. You cannot expect to make music of pure quality and thus rise to the top. You need marketting, proper representation, and a proper business model. Just making good music and thus demanding your fans to recognize this will never happen. You need to be at a certain level for that to happen.

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djchrisallen.net | myspace | ava recordings | facebook | facebook fan page | twitter

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Originally posted by Porky actually laura. if it wasn't for napster in 1999, i probably would never have discovered either pvd or edm and would probably still be listening to hiphop/rap. so to counter your argument, you would have to say that pvd grew into who he is today b/c alot of people discovered his music by downloading his songs (like me).

Yes PVD definitely came to be from you downloading his tunes from napster. Bit ego-centric don't you think? Don't get me wrong, as it's been said the exposure is there at a grassroots level but to model your career on the "honour system" is a tad much - not to mention doomed to failure. It's back to the culture of entitlement - would you walk out of a store with something you hadn't paid for? Why do you think you should be allowed this freedom with music?

Unfortunately you can only gauge success in a regulated market, and the "through the rose coloured glasses" account you give does not lend itself accordingly.

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You told me to look much farther. You told me to walk much more. You told me that music matters.

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Originally posted by geroin There is never enough exposure, there is no plateau in how big you can become. Making music is a hobby first of all not a job, people do it because they enjoy to do it, not because they think about how much money the track will make. The more people download the track for free in return the more people will buy it as well because the hype behind the track increases.

i see where you're coming from here. though that holds true for the most part (cause if you love something, it doesn't matter if you get paid for it or not...you'll still cont. to do it), the reality of the matter is that one would hope that one could make a living doing what they do best, or love to do...and that involves being compensated (I'm not saying big $$ right off the bat..but at least enough to live on or buy materials etc..to continue making what it is you love to do) for your work.

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Originally posted by chinamon everything on the planet gets stolen

that is all!
just man up and do your thing Mr. Angello. You aren't counting your change, thats for sure!

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I plan to live forever..,so far so good.

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Originally posted by Irishaddict Yes PVD definitely came to be from you downloading his tunes from napster. Bit ego-centric don't you think?

I'm not ego-centric.

Don't you think alot of his fans discovered him from downloading his music?

Or do you think his packed gigs are the result of the majority of the audience all discovering and buying his music legally?

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Originally posted by Irishaddict Unfortunately you can only gauge success in a regulated market,

Wouldn't you say that the unregulated nature of the internet is probably the best way to promote your music?

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hello thar

My biggest problem with buying music is I can rarely find the track I want on iTunes when it comes to EDM. If the music was actually easy to purchase, more people would purchase.

What happened to artists releasing all those FUBAR files onto Limewire and such to flood the search engine with bad files. Do they still do that? I always downloaded less music when it was taking me 15 minutes to find a good file :P

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Captain Planet is gey.
Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

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Originally posted by Porky I'm not ego-centric. Don't you think alot of his fans discovered him from downloading his music? Or do you think his packed gigs are the result of the majority of the audience all discovering and buying his music legally? .... Wouldn't you say that the unregulated nature of the internet is probably the best way to promote your music?

I don't disagree with this comment.

However.

I think a live recorded set released to the public is much better to download to 'introduce' someone to EDM. Releasing a single or an entire album of singles that will provide your advertising for your career to continue isn't the best way.

Giving away "something" for free is fine, but giving everything up for free will never work.

The reality is, you still need to make a living.

___________________
djchrisallen.net | myspace | ava recordings | facebook | facebook fan page | twitter

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Since when was it your right to get music for free?

I never thought I had a right to get music for free. I buy alot of albums and mp3s legally. It's just the garbage music that I don't care about. If i had to consciously pay for every single track that would be infeasible.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen If you're a new artist, how exactly do you get exposure? Putting your tracks online for free? Right, because hundreds of people don't already do that right now.

myspace is a start. Whenever i head a good track i always check out an artist's myspace page to see if the rest of their stuff sounds good. i would gladly pay $1/track for songs on myspace that i liked but unfortunately the online distrubution system is so unorganized that i try to see if it's available on p2p sites.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Working with labels is a way to promote yourself and build a reputation and a name for yourself. You can't expect to have fans if nobody knows who you are.

I disagree. Promotion is fine but will only get you so far. True talent will find it's fans.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Radio is a good promotional tool, but again: how do you get your tracks on radio play when it's not coming from a proper label? You think mailing your tracks to radio stations is going to get you airplay? See delusional dreamworld comment above.

I agree with you. A clash between the old and new systems.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen It was only a few years ago where there was NO option to pirate music, and did that bother people then? No, the PRICE of CD's did.

I hated buying a CD for one song and then hearing that the rest of the album blew chunks. I now gladly pay for only the songs that I want.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Nobody should be forced to give anything away for free. What if you went into work and your boss said "you're doing such a great job that for the next 3 months I think you should do this for the good of the company, for free." How exactly would you respond? Something you've been working for/on for X amount of years now and you're told to just give what you do away for free. I hardly think you'd be pleased with that.

I agree with you 100%. Nobody should work for free. So if you're not able to even sell single tracks, you should leave the music business. Maybe music production is not your forte.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Your bottom line is flawwed. You cannot expect to make music of pure quality and thus rise to the top. You need marketting, proper representation, and a proper business model. Just making good music and thus demanding your fans to recognize this will never happen. You need to be at a certain level for that to happen.

i agree with you chris, marketing, proper representation, a proper business model are all important. BUT... the bottom line is that crappy music is crappy music. you can never demand your fans to respect your music. You either have talent or you don't. And you don't need to be at a certain level of fame for your fans to recognize your talent, you either are gifted or you're not.

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hello thar