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Originally posted by aquila Piracy is not just about games though. What about software that fix problems that shouldn't have occurred in the first place? (ie antispam, dvd region cracks, deCSS etc) What about TV shows or movies that can't be purchased legally because of petty licensing and/or region rules? What about TV shows that aren't even available for sale commercially? What about a music album that was poorly marketed in certain countries? What about governmental restrictions (ie x-rated pr0n)? What about movies that are cancelled in cinemas and take 6-9 more months to be released on home media for no fucking reason. What about games that are clearly marked up more in some countries than others? What about deliberately overpriced software? Truth be told I will gladly pay for something that is genuinely worth the money it is asking for. But if I am prevented from doing so by greedy or petty distribution, distance or excessive capitalism, I will gladly consider alternative means of obtaining said product(s). That is my ethics of piracy, and I'll stick to them

What about the rest?!?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN especially if we're focusing on the loss of revenue, not the physical characteristic of the medium in question.

But there are plenty of other ways of making people lose revenue. If I want to kill somebody's revenue from a game, I can give it a terrible review on a prominent gaming site, or make a better game in the same genre and distribute it for a lower price, for example.

Taking action that causes somebody to lose revenue is not in itself illegal.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles But there are plenty of other ways of making people lose revenue. If I want to kill somebody's revenue from a game, I can give it a terrible review on a prominent gaming site, or make a better game in the same genre and distribute it for a lower price, for example. Taking action that causes somebody to lose revenue is not in itself illegal.

Again, I still don’t give a fuck about bullshit semantics that you're dribbling. Piracy is theft, is ruining gaming.

Equating giving a game a bad review with downloading it and not paying for it is, quite simply, retarded.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Again, I still don’t give a fuck about bullshit semantics that you're dribbling. Piracy is theft, is ruining gaming. Equating giving a game a bad review with downloading it and not paying for it is, quite simply, retarded.

Well it appears you do care about semantics. Just so long as your right.

Piracy is not stealing in the traditional sense... just as buying a counterfeit ferrari or whatever isn't stealing.

BTW... what is you guys opinion on how certain types of games will sell a lot better now since they can't be pirated? MMOs a little obvious... but what about stuff like war3tft. Sure it can be pirated... but if you do pirate stuff you miss out on a LOT. Especially if you don't only play dota or standard.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think we just have different ideas of what "steal" means. When I think of "stealing," I think of a situation where somebody makes off with something I own, after which I no longer have it; it's a situation where somebody deprives me of something.

Does income qualify as something?

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last minute disco dot net

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Originally posted by RJT Does income qualify as something?

There is no money transferred in a download, so I assume you mean the "potential" income allegedly lost as a result of downloading?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The "potential" income allegedly lost as a result of downloading, you mean? There is no actual money transferred...

Well it really seems like you're trying rather hard to devalue intellectual properties in any possible fashion you can muster, and if that's your position there's hardly a line I can take that would qualify as a relevant count argument.

In the world you describe it sounds as if the very notion of paying for any intellectual property is pointless because they have no intelligible value to begin with.

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last minute disco dot net

I love seeing how pirates justify their actions. One day if ever you lose your jobs, i hope you don't complain about it. Piracy makes people lose jobs. You can argue all the bullshit semantics that you want, this is undeniable fact.

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Le Freak - Set Archive

Le Freak - A.D.D & Chimichurri [Techno/Tech House/Music to put on burritos.]*click bitches*

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Originally posted by elFreak I love seeing how pirates justify their actions. One day if ever you lose your jobs, i hope you don't complain about it. Piracy makes people lose jobs. You can argue all the bullshit semantics that you want, this is undeniable fact.

Why do you think this is about "self-justification?" I always pay for music and programs unless their maker specifically offers them for free. I enjoy supporting people who make cool stuff.

Nice try, but you fail.

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Originally posted by RJT Well it really seems like you're trying rather hard to devalue intellectual properties in any possible fashion you can muster, and if that's your position there's hardly a line I can take that would qualify as a relevant count argument.

No, I am making a specific argument that copying something is not the same thing as stealing it. Copying it without permission may still be wrong or an assholish thing to do -- I think it is both in many cases -- but it is not theft.

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In the world you describe it sounds as if the very notion of paying for any intellectual property is pointless because they have no intelligible value to begin with.

Not at all.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Why do you think this is about "self-justification?" I always pay for music and programs unless their maker specifically offers them for free. I enjoy supporting people who make cool stuff. Nice try, but you fail.

1. who says i was responding to you.

2.your arguments would lead me to think otherwise

3.shiver me timbers.

is this copy you make for your personal use only (ie backup disk?)

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Le Freak - Set Archive

Le Freak - A.D.D & Chimichurri [Techno/Tech House/Music to put on burritos.]*click bitches*

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Originally posted by elFreak is this copy you make for your personal use only (ie backup disk?)

Personally, that's the only kind of copying I do.

I have a strong distaste for file-sharing as a substitute for purchasing music / programs, but for me it doesn't have anything to do with the idea that it involves "stealing," because I don't think it does.

It's more that I think people who bask in the benefits of other people's hard work and yet feel no desire to give anything back are just douchebags.