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Originally posted by Project-K Lincoln raped my sister

My random 2 cents on the American forefathers:

Alexander Hamilton is continually rolling in his grave because of how extraordinarily shitty his paper, the New York Post, has become over the years

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[11:58] Bas //: fuck he's hot

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Originally posted by verndogs My random 2 cents on the American forefathers: Alexander Hamilton is continually rolling in his grave because of how extraordinarily shitty his paper, the New York Post, has become over the years

Haha! I just learned a new bit of history.

Never would have guessed that he founded it.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN "democracy" comes from the greek, demokratia (or something) which was a form of land-owning voting rights held by the populace at around 500 BC

I'm not talking about ancient Greek democracy which was really "rule by nobility". I'm talking modern liberal democracy...

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Originally posted by Krypton I'm not talking about ancient Greek democracy which was really "rule by nobility". I'm talking modern liberal democracy...

Uh, lots of American states had things like property qualifications and literacy tests for voting long into the 19th century.

Not to mention that blacks couldn't vote until nearly a hundred years after the American founding, and women of all races -- an entire half of the population! -- couldn't vote until fifty years after black males got their voting rights. Refusing to consider Greece a democracy based on the exclusivity of its franchise isn't going to fly if you know anything about U.S. history.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Uh, lots of American states had things like property qualifications and literacy tests for voting long into the 19th century. Not to mention that blacks couldn't vote until nearly a hundred years after the American founding, and women of all races -- an entire half of the population! -- couldn't vote until fifty years after black males got their voting rights. Refusing to consider Greece a democracy based on the exclusivity of its franchise isn't going to fly if you know anything about U.S. history.

Awesome, but tell me one country that allowed even SOME of their people to vote for who was in charge of government in the late 17th century...There wasn't any...Western Europe was still full of monarchies. There was no vote.

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Well, I don't think anyone would disagree that the U.S. was the first "modern liberal democracy." But that wasn't the point of contention anyway.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Well, I don't think anyone would disagree that the U.S. was the first "modern liberal democracy." But that wasn't the point of contention anyway.

My entire point was the founding fathers created the first modern liberal democracy, and that makes them much more than just meer policians, which is what the first post of this entire thread was saying...Whatever you guys brought up...I don't know...

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Your original statement was:

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Originally posted by Krypton Don't forget the American democracy is the oldest in the world...

On its own, unqualified, this statement is incorrect.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Your original statement was: On its own, unqualified, this statement is incorrect.

Ok...Shoulda used "western liberal democracy"...MY BAD...

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Originally posted by Krypton I'm not talking about ancient Greek democracy which was really "rule by nobility". I'm talking modern liberal democracy...

it wasn't "rule by nobility". and if you look at wiki and the history of democracy, you will notice quite a lot of other entrants, most of which will be ignored because americans just love to think highly of themselves.

indeed,

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In November 1755, Pasquale Paoli proclaimed Corsica a sovereign nation, independent from the Republic of Genoa. He created the Corsican Constitution, which was the first constitution written under Enlightenment principles, including the first implementation of female suffrage, later revoked by the French when they took over the island in 1769. The republic created an administration, justice system, and founded an army. After a series of successful actions Paoli drove the Genoese from the whole island except for a few coastal towns. He then set to work to reorganize the government, introducing many reforms. He founded a university at Corte. He created a short-lived "Order of Saint-Devote" in 1757 in honor of the patron saint of the island, Saint Devota.[1] Paoli's ideas of independence, democracy and liberty gained support from such philosophers as Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Voltaire, Raynal, Mably [1]. The publication in 1766 of An Account of Corsica by James Boswell made Paoli famous all over Europe. In 1767 Corsica took the island of Capraia from the Genoese, who, one year later, despairing of ever being able to subjugate Corsica again, with the Treaty of Versailles sold their rights over it to France. French invaded Corsica the same year, and for one year Paoli's forces fought desperately for their new republic against the new invaders. However, in 1769 he was defeated in Ponte Nuovo by vastly superior forces under the Comte de Vaux, and obliged to take refuge in England

so, youre still incorrect.

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