quote:

Originally posted by The17sss "Ha" what? who said anything about 2-3% inflation??? I said between 4 and 5%. I was using data directly from the bureau of labor statistics, not a republican press release (see link below). You always try to baffle people with economic and financial jargon... but underneath all that I know you're the same guy who was asking TA readers (and thinking it was realistic) if they thought starting a 'server broker' business with $2000, or a portfolio consulting firm having no experience or contacts was possible. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Eco...aspx?Symbol=USD

I wasn't using your stat. It was off the top of my head. CNBC, wall street journal, the inflation I remember reading about was like 2-3%, which is totally unrealistic.

I'm not trying to baffle anyone, just speaking my mind. Server broker? Get it right..SERVICE broker. And to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to think outside the box, and think about ALL options. It's ok, I'm not expecting you to understand that.. Let me guess, you work a static 9-5 job? If you want to get personal, we can get personal..

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I'm not trying to baffle anyone, just speaking my mind. Server broker? Get it right..SERVICE broker. And to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to think outside the box, and think about ALL options. It's ok, I'm not expecting you to understand that..

Starting a business that someone else has done before is not thinking outside the box my friend.

As an entrepreneur myself I wish you all the luck, but I can tell you one thing. Sitting here and arguing with people all day will not get you far in business. Maybe I am wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I'm amused that you find sympathy with corporate executives who have no trouble moving to UAE. They can fly back any time they want...hint...private jet...vacation home... Corporations are completely amoral because morality is not their primary concern. Profit is. At anyone's expense. Corporations are wrongly humanized, by government, by you... They are given the status of a human, yet, these "humans" have more resources at their disposal than most countries in the world! That is a blatant imbalance of power because they have billions at their disposal for lobbying and influence in government. I don't have that kind of power. Why does an amoral corporation have more influence than I do on government? Corporations are not people, and shouldn't be treated as a person. If it were up to me, I'de strip all corporations of their "personhood" status.

it's quite presumptuous that you think i find sympathy with halliburton execs. to the contrary, i think it's an awful practice. However, if a company has central operations outside of the US it shouldn't be stuck to operate its HQ in the US because it is incorporated here. Halliburton, on the other hand, is being manipulative and the government should severely restrict the contracts it gives to the company.

How the hell did i humanize corporations? i said corporations are an amalgamation of its executives and other stakeholders. that is quite opposite to humanizing a corporation. rather, it is disregarding the corporation and holding accountable the people who run the company. You, on the other hand, keep insisting corporations act. clearly, as a legal fiction, a corporation can't take actions; its execs and shareholders act on behalf of the corporation. thus, the execs are the ones weilding the power. that power is not all in one person, but spread over the BOD and its shareholders, with the CEO acting on behalf of them. while government allows actions in the name of a corporation, it is not the corporation that acts, it is the people running the corporation. since you can't grasp the distinction this converstaion will go nowhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Kapedano Starting a business that someone else has done before is not thinking outside the box my friend. As an entrepreneur myself I wish you all the luck, but I can tell you one thing. Sitting here and arguing with people all day will not get you far in business. Maybe I am wrong.

I've never heard of a service broker. Anyways, I'm planning an analytics/holding company. Also, classes don't start until late August. I'm still waiting for my stuff (including cloths, furniture, etc.) to get here in El Paso, so until then, I've got all day to lolly-gag. No school, no job (yet)..Hell, the computer I'm using is rented from Rent-a-Center!

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 it's quite presumptuous that you think i find sympathy with halliburton execs. to the contrary, i think it's an awful practice. However, if a company has central operations outside of the US it shouldn't be stuck to operate its HQ in the US because it is incorporated here. Halliburton, on the other hand, is being manipulative and the government should severely restrict the contracts it gives to the company. How the hell did i humanize corporations? i said corporations are an amalgamation of its executives and other stakeholders. that is quite opposite to humanizing a corporation. rather, it is disregarding the corporation and holding accountable the people who run the company. You, on the other hand, keep insisting corporations act. clearly, as a legal fiction, a corporation can't take actions; its execs and shareholders act on behalf of the corporation. thus, the execs are the ones weilding the power. that power is not all in one person, but spread over the BOD and its shareholders, with the CEO acting on behalf of them. while government allows actions in the name of a corporation, it is not the corporation that acts, it is the people running the corporation. since you can't grasp the distinction this converstaion will go nowhere.

Ok, I see. Wouldn't you agree that corporations, "which don't act", should not be classified as "persons", because people act?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Ok, I see. Wouldn't you agree that corporations, "which don't act", should not be classified as "persons", because people act?

a corporation is considered a person in a notional sense. Post-enron, there are many laws that hold CEO's, CFOs, directors, and other execs directly liable for actions of the corporation. for instance, if fraud is perpetrated by a corporation, through the actions of the CFO, the CFO is the one who is going to jail. On top of that, the shareholders will be punished by fines and other sanctions. in small corporations, the shareholders can be directly liable for the corporate actions.

without corporations our economy would not be as large and diverse as it is today. corporations allow people to develop products with less worry about personal liability (which is immensely important). it also allows people to pool funds more easily and spread risk more widely.

our system wouldn't work without a corporate entity of some sort. most people aren't willing to accept full risk when forming a business. therefore, we need corporations to have a separate existence from its owners. Imagine if every single GE shareholder had to sign off on actions of the company. it would be absolutely unworkable!

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton And to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to think outside the box, and think about ALL options. It's ok, I'm not expecting you to understand that.. Let me guess, you work a static 9-5 job? If you want to get personal, we can get personal..

Personal it shall be. And I hope this doesn't totally ruin your belief that you can read people accurately... but I have never in my life had a 9-5. I'm not built for that kind of monotony. At age 24 I finished grad school and within 9 months I used 10K I had saved up to start a consulting engineering company. 6 years later, with plenty of outside the box thinking, I have 3 offices in the U.S. (Charlotte, Lakeland FL, and Hilton Head, SC), and another in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Here, I've employed my business plan so well that we've helped the companies we consult for increase their volume to the tune of half a million dollars profit a year. It's so successful that we are now selling our business model to the 75th largest franchise in the world [profit wise] (a construction conglomerate called DKI) by way of seminars where they pay us to teach them how to replicate the same model of success we have done for the people in Charlotte. My Malaysia based company has 3 partners and formed a joint venture with Antah Holdings, which is owned and operated by the Royal family of Malaysia and worth over $650 million. My stake is just a small piece of that, but the joint venture added instant massive value to my business because of who we are in business with, and put us on the Malaysian Stock Exchange a few months ago. In less than a year in Malaysia, we've locked up deals with the Emir of Qatar, the communications giant Telekom, and the 2nd largest hotel in the world (The 1st World Hotel at Genting Highlands- 6100 rooms)... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't want to break my arm patting myself on the back, but at just 30 years of age, when you're sitting at the dinner table inside the King and Prince of Malaysia's house and they're asking what they can do for you, I'd say there's nothing static about that. But, I'm DEFINITELY not expecting you to understand that

By the way, if you need real advice, I'm open for questions

Last edited by The17sss on Jul-29-2008 at 01:50

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 On top of that, the shareholders will be punished by fines and other sanctions. in small corporations, the shareholders can be directly liable for the corporate actions.

but historically such punishments have been spectacularly ineffective at preventing future crime. if the fine is less than the potential payoff, then they dont care.

as luck might have it I was watching the frontline doco on enron et al last night. congress went out of their way to ensure corporate accounting firms could/would skate on charges of fraud.

that being the case still today, how can anyone be convinced that there are adequate protections from corporate greed?

edit: sorry, not charges of fraud, but liability to shareholder legal action.

___________________

Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on Jul-29-2008 at 02:09

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Personal it shall be. And I hope this doesn't totally ruin your belief that you can read people accurately... but I have never in my life had a 9-5. I'm not built for that kind of monotony. At age 24 I finished grad school and within 9 months I used 10K I had saved up to start a consulting engineering company. 6 years later, with plenty of outside the box thinking, I have 3 offices in the U.S. (Charlotte, Lakeland FL, and Hilton Head, SC), and another in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. Here, I've employed my business plan so well that we've helped the companies we consult for increase thier volume to the tune of half a million dollars profit a year. It's so successful that we are now selling our business model to the 75th largest franchise in the world [profit wise] (a construction conglomerate called DKI) by way of seminars where they pay us to teach them how to replicate the same model of success we have done for the people in Charlotte. My Malaysia based company has 3 partners and formed a joint venture with Antah Holdings, which is owned and operated by the Royal family of Malaysia and worth over $650 million. My stake is just a small piece of that, but the joint venture added instant massive value to my business because of who we are in business with, and put us on the Malaysian Stock Exchange a few months ago. In less than a year in Malaysia, we've locked up deals with the Emir of Qatar, the communications giant Telekom, and the 2nd largest hotel in the world (The 1st World Hotel at Genting Highlands- 6100 rooms)... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I don't want to break my arm patting myself on the back, but at just 30 years of age, when you're sitting at the dinner table inside the King and Prince of Malaysia's house and they're asking what they can do for you, I'd say there's nothing static about that. But, I'm DEFINITELY not expecting you to understand that By the way, if you need real advice, I'm open for questions

bravo bravo.. Don't hold it against me because I haven't "made it" yet..

quote:

a corporation is considered a person in a notional sense. Post-enron, there are many laws that hold CEO's, CFOs, directors, and other execs directly liable for actions of the corporation. for instance, if fraud is perpetrated by a corporation, through the actions of the CFO, the CFO is the one who is going to jail. On top of that, the shareholders will be punished by fines and other sanctions. in small corporations, the shareholders can be directly liable for the corporate actions. without corporations our economy would not be as large and diverse as it is today. corporations allow people to develop products with less worry about personal liability (which is immensely important). it also allows people to pool funds more easily and spread risk more widely. our system wouldn't work without a corporate entity of some sort. most people aren't willing to accept full risk when forming a business. therefore, we need corporations to have a separate existence from its owners. Imagine if every single GE shareholder had to sign off on actions of the company. it would be absolutely unworkable!

Laws to hold CEOs accountable huh? How can those laws have jurisdiction over a multinational corporation which has most of its business in foreign markets? One example being, isn't it illegal to convict a company for bribing political officials? Africa is rife with political bribes from multinationals. I don't see an American company being convicting of bribing, say, an official in Nigeria, or Angola.

I very much support the ideal of corporations, capitalism. But I believe unrestrained capitalism, or unrestrained corporate power is very dangerous.

___________________

Nah man I'm not holding anything against you in that regard... I hope to god you find entrepeneurial success because there is NOTHING better than making your own schedule and not having to answer to anyone. It's just that you made such a huge assumption about me, and in a way that suggested I don't have the business like understanding you have when you haven't made it yet. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. But you're a good sport and I like you anyway I've had a couple of lucky breaks along the way too. You'll need them too and I hope you get them.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Nah man I'm not holding anything against you in that regard... I hope to god you find entrepeneurial success because there is NOTHING better than making your own schedule and not having to answer to anyone. It's just that you made such a huge assumption about me, and in a way that suggested I don't have the business like understanding you have when you haven't made it yet. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. But you're a good sport and I like you anyway I've had a couple of lucky breaks along the way too. You'll need them too and I hope you get them.

What's the name of your company listed on the Malaysian stock exchange? I'm gonna place a value on it.. Where you at in the investor's club??

___________________