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Originally posted by Krypton That does not negate the fact that the wealthiest still pay a LESSER percentage of their income in taxes than do the middle class. It doesn't matter what percentage of all taxes paid to the government are from the wealthy. They still pay less of their income in taxes than do the middle class. It's probably better to look at the essay itself instead of an aol message board...

People still use AOL? Ahhh, Krypton, it's comments such as the line above that make it hard to dislike you

As for the tax comment, what do you want man? Why should people who make over $250K to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes when the richest 10% already pay 70% of them? Where is the reward for your hard work? Imagine yourself in that position. If you were making like, $400K per year, would you be saying to yourself, "You know what? I've busted my ass in school and work for years to get this far... it's only fair to those who can barely make ends meet that I give back a massive chunk because it would be more fair to them." Hell no! You'd be too busy waxing your Bently and thinking of your upcoming trip to San Tropez

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Originally posted by Q5echo it's one thing for someone that hates Bush to criticize people for supporting what he does, it's downright scary how those same people follow this guy no matter what he says.

Agreed. In case you didn't see this from one of my posts last week, it sums up what you just said:

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I have never seen a presidential candidate with less to offer this nation, yet with more arrogance and self-delusion than Barack Obama. And you look at the reason and the way that some support Obama, you can understand the roots of tyranny, I think. I'm not saying he's a tyrant, don't misunderstand. What I'm saying is that so many people have to suspend both reason and experience to support a guy like Obama. You have to throw out common sense, you have to throw out experience, you have to throw out everything you know and totally entrust a personality that you don't even know personally. Obama not only thinks that he is the savior, so do his supporters. Obama knows that that's how he is viewed, as a savior, which is why he speaks as he does, which is why he acts as he does. He knows who his audience is; he knows how to connect with it. He's brilliant at that. He knows exactly who he's talking to.

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Originally posted by The17sss People still use AOL? Ahhh, Krypton, it's comments such as the line above that make it hard to dislike you As for the tax comment, what do you want man? Why should people who make over $250K to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes when the richest 10% already pay 70% of them? Where is the reward for your hard work? Imagine yourself in that position. If you were making like, $400K per year, would you be saying to yourself, "You know what? I've busted my ass in school and work for years to get this far... it's only fair to those who can barely make ends meet that I give back a massive chunk because it would be more fair to them." Hell no! You'd be too busy waxing your Bently and thinking of your upcoming trip to San Tropez

Well, I found what you posted here.. http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en...rUnhidden=false

Guess I was wrong where you found it..

You know what I really want? Abolition of all taxes EXCEPT for a consumption tax. In addition to that, I want a substantial check on government expenditures, and a reduction of government deficits. That mean NO corporate tax, NO income tax, NO death tax, NO property taxes...

But in a tax code which does not enact what I want, if I know the rich pay less of a percentage of their income than the middle class, I certainly want that adjusted. I only consider it fair in our archaic tax code. FAIR TAX 4 da win!! It'd be nice if Obama supported the FAIR TAX bill.

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Originally posted by Krypton Well, I found what you posted here.. http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en...rUnhidden=false FAIR TAX 4 da win!!

Nah I got it from Newsweek, and Bob Novak's column. I stay away from AOL message boards. lol.

But yeah, holy balls we agree on something... the fair tax. I'm all about that. Funny how that is truly fair in every sense of the word but we can't get politicians to get behind it.

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Originally posted by The17sss HAHA... dude take it easy. You are blinded by your seething hatred. Yes, I do think Kerry and Gore would have been worse. From what I recall, Clinton was President during the 1993 trade center bombing, and look where the democratic strategy of "lets let the court system handle it" got us.

You mean the one just a month into his 1st term? To those conservatives who blame Clinton for 9/11, do they also blame Bush I and Reagan for the '93 WTC bombing? Seems a bit hypocrical, not to mention the obvious 8 month time span difference.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

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Originally posted by The17sss You're right... most are not happy. So what's the problem with allowing the healthcare industry to operate as any other free market industry operates, where you get affordable prices through competition? Why toss that idea into the garbage and instead just back up the idea of socialized medicine?

who says they will be affordable? Are they affordable now for most Americans? I think not. Your trust in insurance companies is startling, considering the abundance of evidence out there that clearly proves they are more interested in their bottom line than actually providing 100% guaranteed coverage.

Insurance companies all over North America have been posting record profits in the last decade and this includes the healthcare insurance industry in the United States.

The system you have now favours those who make the most money. And I'm not opposed to having private clinics for the very rich, but I firmly believe that healthcare should be a right and a service provided by the government and delivered in an unbiased fashion.

You don't pay the police department or the fire department if they save your life. Why should have to pay a doctor when the federal and state/provincial governments can administer it more effectively and without prejudice?

___________________
"No offense, but you're stupid"

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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 who says they will be affordable? Are they affordable now for most Americans? I think not. Your trust in insurance companies is startling, considering the abundance of evidence out there that clearly proves they are more interested in their bottom line than actually providing 100% guaranteed coverage.

Are you retarded? I'm not even talking about insurance companies. I don't have any trust in them, are you shitting me? I'm talking about allowing healthcare to run in the private sector, like any other industry. The market and it's competition between companies will dictate the pricing and make it affordable.

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Originally posted by The17sss Are you retarded? I'm not even talking about insurance companies. I don't have any trust in them, are you shitting me? I'm talking about allowing healthcare to run in the private sector, like any other industry. The market and it's competition between companies will dictate the pricing and make it affordable.

I'm not really sure that you understand who comprises the "private sector" is when you make comments like this. The insurance companies, that you don't have any trust in, are a major component of the private sector when it comes to healthcare.

Or are really so dense that you think that costs for emergency procedures, for example, will be affected by competition...because we all know that every town has a few competing hospitals and that people have time to shop around when they need this done.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Hah! It cost me $150 deductable to have simple little biopsy done on my skin. That mean insurance paid hundreds of dollars more than I did. All they did was numb the spot with a shot, and cut it out, put a couple stitches, done. Health care in this country is not only dominated by insurance companies, but health care itself is way too overpriced.

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Originally posted by Q5echo using a similar standard to yours, Obama only lived "abroad" as a child.

He was 10 when he moved from there, enough for it to influence him later in life

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do you think wisdom is more important or knowledge. and i'd argue that, again, your assuption of Obama's knowledge is a perception and little else. the beauty of the office of the president of the United States is that it's set up for one man, someone who is, yes, advised by council, to lead with his judgement and his alone. it's set up in a way that makes him and him alone responsible for the decision making. what i'm saying is that it does matter what defines the man as a sound judge of character. so far, Obama hasn't proven that to the electorate substantively and the polls reflect that.

Well, Obama has so far surrounded himself with excellent advisers and strategists, why should he not continue doing that? He was right about the Iraq waq (that it would turn into chaos, and that Saddam was not direct threat). He has shown good judgment when it comes to other things as well (such as the stupid holliday gas tax breaks of Clinton and McCain, or his oppositon of off-shore drilling which will have no short term effects whatsoever). He rightly wants to talk to all the US' enemies, which is in part what actually made the surge successful, and that even Bush now seems to realize about Iran.

Obamas campaign has not done any major mistakes whatsoever and has run an extremely successful campaign, which imo proves his executive excellence so far (and his ability to surround himself with competent people).

McCain meanwhile, the only thing he brags about is the surge, which imo is pathetic since it was so many other things that made "the surge" successful rather than the actual surge in troops (such as change in top management, change in tactics, etc). McCain also keeps doing an enormous amount of tactical errors (and also going away from the "old" McCain who actually was a much better guy, with less political maneuvering). So it seems like as soon as McCain started to surround himself with a lot of advisers, he actually turned a lot worse.

quote:

Originally posted by The17sss Are you retarded? I'm not even talking about insurance companies. I don't have any trust in them, are you shitting me? I'm talking about allowing healthcare to run in the private sector, like any other industry. The market and it's competition between companies will dictate the pricing and make it affordable.

There are lot of countries where Government and Private hospitals runs side by side.. What happens generally in the long run is private hospitles become a symbol of elite, with top notch facility and expensive treatments.. where as government hospitles becomes poor mans hospitals with very low cost for the same treatment but poor facilities and hygine and stuff..

So why not make all govt hospitals private? Its not possible.. medical healthcare business requires huge investments, maintainance costs and sheer amount of skilled labour you need to run a hospital .. the technology too keeps changing at very fast pace and you need keep updating the equipments and facilities.. costs are very high in running a hospital.. unless govt subsidises it, there is no way to bring costs down.. (like competition and stuff mentioned earlier).. running a hospital is not like running a low cost airlner or something..