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Originally posted by Krypton I am addressing the Richard Dawkins-type strong atheists..

I must defend Dawkins here, because he does not say 'there is no god', he says he finds it highly unlikely. Krypton misrepresenting atheists again, surely not!!

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Big deal. Debates happen in here every day, including debates about politics, and from what I've read they're mostly far more intelligent and interesting than what goes on in PDD, since that place seems to be brimming with irrational zealots.

Well, I'm not in this thread to debate the existence of god, just to make the point against strong atheism, of which Richard Dawkins advocates.

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Originally posted by Lira Actually, plenty of philosophers (dating back to Hume in the modern tradition), have already shown how unlikely it is for a God to exist, and how the existence of a Christian god is, in fact, impossible. The last good argument I read was the Knowledge Argument developed by Yujin Nagasawa (which I posted on the PDD). Think of the Greek gods. If I tell you they exist, and all those myths are true, would you say it is just as probable as saying otherwise? Think about it in daily terms: If I claim you the next block of ice you touch will be warm, is that just as probable as saying that it will be cold? But, isn't it likely that science won't ever find something that it doesn't even mean to look for? It can't even try to look for it. Here's the first bit you wrote: In order to claim anything about God, don't you have to at least define what God is? Theists can't even agree on that so, if you claim there is no God, you're correct to deny the existence of at least one definition of God, given the fact that God cannot be so many different entities at the same time.

Religion's commonality is the belief in the existence of a supernatural reality, of which all of them attempt to explain what this reality is, and our place in it.

There are just as many philosophers who philosophize the existence of a god, or supernatural realities, as there are philosophers who philosophize about the non-existence of a god. The common fact about all of these philosophies is that none can be definitively proven. Only through logic can one theorize these issues.

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FFS don't you fucking idiots get tired of arguing the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over???

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Originally posted by jennypie FFS don't you fucking idiots get tired of arguing the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over???

Yeah, which is why from now on in this thread I'm going to proselytize for my theory of an unintelligent creator, also known as "dumb design."

The first piece of evidence for dumb design is the predominance of stupid people in the world. God loves idiots the most, so he makes lots of them.

we all know full well that i am your god, now bow to me her majesty's swine.

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Originally posted by RickyM I'd generally agree, however you can still be a theist and be agnostic. Agnostism is simply a position stating that we can't ultimately know whether god exists or not...it says nothing about belief. A lot of people confuse agnosticism as being some sort of middle ground between theism and atheism...it's my opinion that a lot of people who call themselves 'an agnostic' are in fact atheists who aren't ready to admit it! You can call yourself an agnostic, but it says nothing about your belief/lack of belief in a god.

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Originally posted by RickyM I must defend Dawkins here, because he does not say 'there is no god', he says he finds it highly unlikely. Krypton misrepresenting atheists again, surely not!!

I'm not misrepresenting atheism. I just didn't make myself clear enough. You seem to think I'm purposefully trying to demonize atheists.

Not that I don't believe, but can you supply me with a quote on Dawkins specific belief on the existence/non-existence of a creator or god, etc.? I know he despises religion. But religion is different from god itself.

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Originally posted by Aesthetic we all know full well that i am your god, now bow to me her majesty's swine.

Fuck you dave! The only way I would ever bow to you is before a round of karate, then I would proceed to kick your fosters drinking head off your shoulders!

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Originally posted by RickyM I'd generally agree, however you can still be a theist and be agnostic. Agnostism is simply a position stating that we can't ultimately know whether god exists or not...it says nothing about belief. A lot of people confuse agnosticism as being some sort of middle ground between theism and atheism...it's my opinion that a lot of people who call themselves 'an agnostic' are in fact atheists who aren't ready to admit it! You can call yourself an agnostic, but it says nothing about your belief/lack of belief in a god.

Well, I'm following Bertrand Russell on this one:

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As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.

I simply don't consider Krypton to be "an ordinary man in the street", and I tend to be cautious about labels in general.

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Originally posted by Krypton I'm not misrepresenting atheism. I just didn't make myself clear enough. You seem to think I'm purposefully trying to demonize atheists. Not that I don't believe, but can you supply me with a quote on Dawkins specific belief on the existence/non-existence of a creator or god, etc.? I know he despises religion. But religion is different from god itself.

Not a problem:

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We cannot, of course, disprove God, just as we can't disprove Thor, fairies, leprechauns and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But, like those other fantasies that we can't disprove, we can say that God is very very improbable.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richa...nl_b_32164.html

Check the very last paragraph.

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Originally posted by Lira Well, I'm following Bertrand Russell on this one: I simply don't consider Krypton to be "an ordinary man in the street", and I tend to be cautious about labels in general.

Precisely, I think Russell is referring to how the terms 'atheist' and 'agnostic' can be and are misunderstood.

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Originally posted by RickyM Precisely, I think Russell is referring to how the terms 'atheist' and 'agnostic' can be and are misunderstood.

And now I'm confused as to why you drew my attention to how I was using the definitions. I just chose the most cautious one for this discussion

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