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Originally posted by love_child Why is it your responsibility instead of mine?

because in canada the government thinks that adults are mental midgets without a mind of their own and need to have their hand held at every step.

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Originally posted by Skipper like who?

Europe and Asia for starters.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Europe and Asia for starters.

Country specific pls

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Again, these charges have nothing to do with driving.

They have something to do with driving because the patrons were hurt/killed while driving. If they walked home, and slept and were fine, then there would be no investigation. Some it obviously has something to do with the act of them driving and getting hurt. So to try and take that out of the equation is wrong.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 AGCO court is not the same as regular court. In AGCO court the charges dont have to be proven. In fact it is up to you to prove that you didnt commit these acts. Also, rarely is the patron themselves charged or even identified. What usually happens is that the AGCO racks up a bunch of charges and tells you to plead guilty to a third of them. Then they tell you to shut down for a month or lose your licence. Its a bully tactic. This is why half the entertainment district is closed for the month of january. It has little to do with liquor or law and everything to do with an agenda. I have no respect for the AGCO and absolutely no respect for third party blame. If you are underage in a club, you should be charged with fraud. If you get wasted and drive, you get whats coming to u. The end.

I was under the impression that these charges are to be heard in Ontario Court of Justice.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by love_child How can you (server/owner) safeguard yourself in that type of instance? Most of the bars I go to are within walking distance for me so I rarely to never drive. If you asked me for my keys I would tell you I am walking. So do you cut me off if I do not have keys to give you? What if I drove and lied to you? Why is it your responsibility instead of mine?

if you appear intoxicated the bar has the right to cut you off....it doesn't matter if you drove, flew, walked or rode a monkey to the bar.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by Orko They have something to do with driving because the patrons were hurt/killed while driving. If they walked home, and slept and were fine, then there would be no investigation. Some it obviously has something to do with the act of them driving and getting hurt. So to try and take that out of the equation is wrong.

if they were walking home and stumbled down a cliff and died these charges would still be laid.

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quote:

Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I agree, intoxication can be difficult to determine, which is why the evidence in support of the persons being considered to be intoxicated will need to be heard by a judge and the judge will decide if the employees of the tavern should have been able to make the determination as to whether or not the person was intoxicated.

Intoxication is pretty easy to determine. i was the head doorman at a club downtown and i shot ppl down all the time for showing up at my bar "intoxicated"...they werent piss drunk, hammered, falling all over the place...but they were intoxicated.

as far as ppl inside the bar, we HAD to go over and above to make sure we covered our asses for everyone who looked bad.

i kinda agree its ridiculous...theres a case where an employee took a person home in a cab...got them inside their house...the person came back out, got into their car...had an accident...and the bar was still charged...its really shitty.

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Originally posted by love_child How can you (server/owner) safeguard yourself in that type of instance? Most of the bars I go to are within walking distance for me so I rarely to never drive. If you asked me for my keys I would tell you I am walking. So do you cut me off if I do not have keys to give you? What if I drove and lied to you? Why is it your responsibility instead of mine?

honestly, its really a matter of making the effort...we keep detailed incident reports just in case of things like this...35 drinks for 4 people is grossly irresponsible and im sure thats what ultimately led to the guilty verdict...

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Originally posted by Jayx1 How i would fix this: Make the drunk driving law ZERO tolerance meaning no alcohol allowed in your system. Then remove 3rd party blame completely.

Please, tell me you're joking. You of all people should understand that criminalizing a non-criminal behaviour simply creates more criminals.

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quote:

Originally posted by Orko They have something to do with driving because the patrons were hurt/killed while driving. If they walked home, and slept and were fine, then there would be no investigation. Some it obviously has something to do with the act of them driving and getting hurt. So to try and take that out of the equation is wrong.

The accident and the post mortems that obviously followed were what tipped off the authorities. that doesn't make the charge about driving - the accident is simply evidence.