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Originally posted by The17sss by definition, markets correct themselves when left alone

Q@#K$JLB:LKQ#AW$YKL:zdf

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by The17sss For creating jobs, don't you think cutting corproate taxes would be a real stimulus? This is crazy.

We've been doing that for the last fucking 8 years man.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Unless they're immigrants working for him or he's the one using the drugs.

I'm pretty sure he still hates those immigrants and hates himself for not being able to control his addiction.

He's just about the saddest individual in America.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by The17sss Do you realize that only 3% of the stimulus is actually going to "infrastructure" (If you want the link I'll provide it).

This is a huge bone of contention among progressives. We'd like to see this number MUCH higher, but unfortunately Republicans are crying "earmark" whenever the word infrastructure is brought up. You want to know why this number is as low as it is? Those tax cuts that were thrown in after consulting with Republican House leadership took its place.

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Originally posted by The17sss Let me rephrase- he wanted no stimulus package as it was laid out. Rather, he wanted a stimulus for the American people via tax cuts in capital gains and corporate taxes, but of course we knew that wasn't going to happen.

i agree corporate tax rates need to be lower - say 25%. I don't necessarily agree that capital gains rates should be lower though because people need to invest excess capital in any event, so the whole incentive argument is flawed. Additionally, why do we give preference to income earned through capital over income earned through personal services? please justify that!

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Originally posted by The17sss Bush was treated like the devil when it came to deficit spending (which was warranted), but now it's like they can't spend it fast enough.

bush's deficit spending was to fight wars, and give tax cuts that would do nothing for long term economic growth.

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Originally posted by The17sss If spending like drunken sailors is a good idea, why are we in this mess now?

that's absolutely correct. Spending too much is what caused this problem, and we need to spend an amount that is in line with income. However, if possible, we need to soften the blow. Hopefully, smart investments can accomplish this.

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Originally posted by The17sss Do you realize that only 3% of the stimulus is actually going to "infrastructure" (If you want the link I'll provide it).

i agree with Leb that it should be much higher. More should be invested in education, modernizing essential portions of the economy, etc....

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Originally posted by The17sss I just read that in this new stimulus package, there is 650 million going towards the "analog to digital" tv converter program, 600 million going towards govt. redoing their vehicle fleet in hybrid cars (which is double what they spend now), 400 million for NASA on climate change research, 8 billion for wireless and broadband deployment... plus these gems: 1) Dep of agriculture 44 million for facilities, 2) Dept of agriculture 29 million for research buidlings 3) Dept of agriculture 245 million for IT modernization (that's an assload of money to upgrade an IT department) 4) Rural community program 5.838 billion (whatever the fuck that is) 5) 22 billion for "rural housing insurance fund," 18 of which is for unsubisdized loan guarantees and the other 4 billion direct loans... which basically means they want to spend billions to make sure farms and rural areas have high speed internet access? 6) Welfare stuff: 100 million for WIC and 50 million to distribute Food bought for WIC programs. 7) 350 million for salary and expenses for National Telecommunications and Information Administration salaries and expenses 8) 150 Million for the Smithsonian...lol 9) 6 million for colleges and universities, most of which have huge endowments. 10) 32 new government programs will be created, which equates to 1/3 of the total package. 11) 4 billion to community organization groups like ACORN... or, funding Obama's army in other words. This sounds a lot like a government stimulus package plan to me. For creating jobs, don't you think cutting corproate taxes would be a real stimulus? This is crazy.

while i don't agree with some of the spending, you have to put the numbers into perspective. 6 million (for schools) is 0.000694% of 865billion. Also, just because we don't like the use of those funds doesn't mean it won't contribute to the economy. Most of the money will eventually flow from the government to a private enterprise at some point in the economic cycle.

has 17sss had his eyes shut for the past 18 months?

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haha... nah man I've been unhappy about politics since about 2005 when Bush went off the rails and began going against everything the GOP used to stand for, then when a Democrat congress took over, and the final insult was having McCain become the nominee of the party. Dark days lie ahead for me man.. dark days.

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Originally posted by The17sss haha... nah man I've been unhappy about politics since about 2005 when Bush went off the rails and began going against everything the GOP used to stand for, then when a Democrat congress took over, and the final insult was having McCain become the nominee of the party. Dark days lie ahead for me man.. dark days.

There'll be no end in sight if you keep listening to Rush.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Obama: Quit Listening to Rush Limbaugh if You Want to Get Things Done Obama warned Republicans to quit listening to Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats, during a White House discussion on his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package. WASHINGTON -- President Obama warned Republicans on Capitol Hill today that they need to quit listening to radio king Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with Democrats and the new administration. "You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done," he told top GOP leaders, whom he had invited to the White House to discuss his nearly $1 trillion stimulus package. One White House official confirmed the comment but said he was simply trying to make a larger point about bipartisan efforts. "There are big things that unify Republicans and Democrats," the official said. "We shouldn't let partisan politics derail what are very important things that need to get done."

fuck, that is a dangerous game Obama is playing there. If the Republicans call his bluff and then his plans don't turn the economy around the Democrats could have a disaster on their hands in the 2010 elections with 30+ Senate and 70+ House seats up for grabs. If the economy is in the toilet still after two years people are going to hold the Democrats responsible and Obama could end up a virtual lame duck fighting against a hostile Republican Congress halfway through his first term.

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Originally posted by XaNaX fuck, that is a dangerous game Obama is playing there. If the Republicans call his bluff and then his plans don't turn the economy around the Democrats could have a disaster on their hands in the 2010 elections with 30+ Senate and 70+ House seats up for grabs. If the economy is in the toilet still after two years people are going to hold the Democrats responsible and Obama could end up a virtual lame duck fighting against a hostile Republican Congress halfway through his first term.

You said it. It is going to be a very interesting time in this country's history.....


//grabbing some popcorn

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Originally posted by XaNaX fuck, that is a dangerous game Obama is playing there. If the Republicans call his bluff and then his plans don't turn the economy around the Democrats could have a disaster on their hands in the 2010 elections with 30+ Senate and 70+ House seats up for grabs. If the economy is in the toilet still after two years people are going to hold the Democrats responsible and Obama could end up a virtual lame duck fighting against a hostile Republican Congress halfway through his first term.

I honestly think Pelosi is the biggest threat to the Democrats hold of power/Obama's reign.

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[11:58] Bas //: fuck he's hot

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Originally posted by verndogs I honestly think Pelosi is the biggest threat to the Democrats hold of power/Obama's reign.

I think she can do a lot to hurt the Democrats, but I think the biggest threat to the Democrats right now is the economy. Right now the country has handed the Democrats the presidency along with majorities in both the House and the Senate with the assumption that they will "fix" the country because Bush and the Republicans "broke" it. This is a really dangerous position for them to be in because I can only see massive success or total failure come out of it, not really much middle ground.

I feel like Obama was elected with near impossible expectations for him as a President, that somehow he is going to come in and fix everything. To help him get things done his party was also given control of both houses of congress. He talked a good game in the election but if his/the Democrats policies are not successful in turning around the economy people will put the Republicans back in office just as fast as they threw them out this time. If they are successful then I think we could see a long run of Democrats in power.

Not that it is a picnic to be a Republican right now either. You either have to go along with a porkfilled stimulus bill that goes against your core values as a Republican or you could be seen as someone who isn't doing what's "right" for the country. Or you could come out of it looking like someone who was standing up against a policy which was ultimately a failure when it wasn't popular to do so. It all depends on how things go the next two years.

Obama needs to remember that he does not have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate before he makes comments like this. I'd hate to see all the hope for bipartisan cooperation and "reaching across the isle" that we heard about in the election evaporate thanks to statements that Republicans could see as "vote for our pork or else"