quote:

[b]Originally posted by djjoshuaallen [/b I do think action should be taken, but their generous claim of creating 3.5 million new jobs with a pricetag of 780 billion seems a bit absurd. ($225,000 per job) Jobs that exist soley because of government spending, jobs that will dwindle away once those funds are gone.

Create and SAVE 3.5 million jobs, i guess you're comfortable with losing firefighters, cops, and teachers due to the lack of capital and an economy in a tale spin. What's your solution to help the 10,000 jobs lost today?

Serious question.

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Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

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Originally posted by DaveT 2/3rds of americans are dumb with if they think how this bill was rushed is OK. Fact is, the vast majority of american's don't even take the time to udnerstand what's in the bill and don't ever take into consideration the consequencs. Point is that polls in areas like this are stupid. Again, I don't care if the bill was perfect. How it was rushed is a disgrace. Would you ever sign that Bill w/o being able to read every detail, even if in the end it was very similar to something you read before? Politics are retarted. Our congress is retarded.

It hasn't been rushed. Everything in the bill has been made public for almost a month while it's been going back and forth from the house and senate. About 95% of the contents have stayed the same, and has been available for everyone to pick apart, it's just that less than 1% of the entire package has come into scrutiny by fox news and republicans (like OP) trying to con the public into thinking the entire bill is that 1%.

Pathetic.

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Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

No matter what was changed or how much, I want to have the opportunity to go through it and see for myself. A lot of things are slipped into bills quietly and secretly and never mentioned so no debate can be brought up on it as it's rushed through Congress. Happens ALL THE TIME.

11 hours if rushed dude. 11 HOURS from the time the final plan was sent out (and, again, not even fully typed up. Lots of scribbles out lines and details with adjustements handwritten in the columns) to the House voting...

That's pathetic. And there's really no argument to be had for it.

They couldn't even wait a couple days. Two days, big whoop. A week...still, big frickin deal. Just give the fair opportunity.

This isn't about what's in the bill or what isn't. This is about giving at least some time to give everyone a chance to look over it in it's final form....to take it all in at once.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveT A lot of things are slipped into bills quietly and secretly

Name one "thing" that was slipped in the bill quietly.

The contents of this bill have been public for almost a month, you're acting like something was parachuted in from left field at the last minute.

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Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

How would I know unless I had time to look it over?

I wouldn't.

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Originally posted by starboy Name one "thing" that was slipped in the bill quietly.

Dave is right, your hopeless. This sort of thing happens all the time. The way it was handled is what I have the biggest problem with, there is no rush for a bill that is not expected to have an immediate impact.

The fact is a stimulus could have been written with half of the dollar amount of this one, AND have been just as effective.

Last edited by djjoshuaallen on Feb-15-2009 at 00:59

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Originally posted by starboy What's your solution to help the 10,000 jobs lost today? Serious question.

are you saying that because we passed the bill we are not going to lose 10k tomorrow? or on Monday? We are still losing jobs bud, and we will lose many more. Oh yea, and the bill passed.

I dont have all the answers, but because we havent figured them out is no reason to write a 787 billion dollar check.

IMO many companies are currently laying people off because they can do so without having to offer any explanation because everybody is doing it right now. The main problem with this recession is the loss of consumer confidence, I dont see this bill rallying consumer confidence. It just spends on jobs that will only last as long as the funds do, which isnt long really.

Last edited by djjoshuaallen on Feb-15-2009 at 00:56

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Originally posted by djjoshuaallen are you saying that because we passed the bill we are not going to lose 10k tomorrow?

I am saying republicans are doing nothing to help, their contribution is to bet on failure of this bill in hopes of saying "i told you so" the GOP is the party of NO, they have no coherent message, and no concrete ideas besides tax cuts to get us out of this mess.

This isn't enough, but it is a step in the right direction and most economists from the left and right agree.

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Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

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Originally posted by starboy I am saying republicans are doing nothing to help, their contribution is to bet on failure of this bill in hopes of saying "i told you so"

agreed. All I'm saying is the the left still needs to spend less on wasteful projects. They can put HALF the amount of this bill directly where it should go and be as effective. They should take a few months to figure out exactly where that should be. I bet they get more support from both the public, economists, and republicans. And have a much better chance for success.

Since all the democrats will all do just as Obama says, and all the happy igorant Obama lovers think he can do no wrong, well then lets just shove it down their throats in just 2 weeks, unfinished and unread, and write the 787 billion dollar check.

I actually think it's hopeless with most of you because from what I've seen on here, you all are party loyalist

Crooks never change. If you think Obama's Presidency is going to change the way America's government operates, your quite the optimist and possibly naive. One man can't change the fabric, culture, or the philosophy of a government. In many ways Obama is just a smart innocent man playing whatever part he is given to play. If they ask him to jump, he has to ask "how high?" The direction of America and the World really depends on the people around him.

The problem with the economy is that money has moved from the hands of the consumer/spender, directly to the banks and the government, all while inflation has gotten out of control. And as long as the money is being holed up in banks and in the hands of the government the recession will continue. The government has to find a way to give people their money back that was taken (debatable) through the mortgage market, stockmarket, and bailouts. The best way to do that is to create jobs, drop taxes severely, bigger stimulus payouts to tax payers, and fiscal responsibility to make up for the drop incoming tax revenue (even though there should be plenty of the stolen middle class money to cover tax cuts for years.) Lowering taxes will allow the economy to work again, because consumers can make descisions for themselves on where they should spend money, and the producers of the products will once again have a reason to make their investments in production and manufacturing because there is a consumer willing and able to spend again. Demand and Consumption will rise, Investment will rise, Supply will rise, GDP will grow and the ecomomy will be healthy again.

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