this is pointless

the cyclical world thing answers no questions at all.

if you have a cyclical expanding and contracting system, you must still question where the system came from originally... and when you come up with a clever theory for that, you will have to question where the content of that theory came from, ad infinitum. this is just the nature of things.

everything is necessarily the cause of everything. there is such a tangled web of causality for every single thing in the universe, and when you untangle this web you end up at the same original and ulimate source, that is BEING, itself.

for this reason it's ultimately pointless to look for causality in the universe. personally, i believe causality is only ever relative causality, simply an effect of looking at the world as a particular subject.




also, a comment on the OP.

isolating a 'system' presupposes that there is a separate observer to view the system. this has essentially been debunked by quantum physical experiments in the last 50 years. anyways you don't even need to do experiments to understand the essential truth of this: if the observer is separate from the 'system', then what 'system' is the observer a part of, and is he subject to the same laws? and if there exists this other system, then what contains this system? in order to recognize it as a system, you'd need an observer, who would have to be part of yet another system...

ultimately there are no systems or observers, there is only pure, undivided being. the best way i have heard this described is as a vast, deep ocean (infinite, timeless potential of everything), and any system or observer or observation or theory or universe or piece of matter is merely a wave or ripple - apparently a distinct object but ultimately indivisible and utterly temporary

Last edited by nefardec on Jul-20-2009 at 19:44

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec this is pointless the cyclical world thing answers no questions at all. if you have a cyclical expanding and contracting system, you must still question where the system came from originally... and when you come up with a clever theory for that, you will have to question where the content of that theory came from, ad infinitum. this is just the nature of things. everything is necessarily the cause of everything. there is such a tangled web of causality for every single thing in the universe, and when you untangle this web you end up at the same original and ulimate source, that is BEING, itself. for this reason it's ultimately pointless to look for causality in the universe. personally, i believe causality is only ever relative causality, simply an effect of looking at the world as a particular subject.

^ thanks for saving me the time

Cause? We're talking about causality now?

Run! Soon there will be words about purpose, end, motives, rationality, melted-cheese, and we're going to postulate the existence... OF A GOD!!!

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So, what happens if you take the red pill?

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael So, what happens if you take the red pill?

I'm not sure. I just helped ship a bunch of blue pills to the Large Hardon Collider and they're still trying to get it on

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Okay, so from what I understand some of you are saying, like Lira, is, there was always matter and energy in existence, and that it is eternal? But there was not always matter in this universe. Right? So if that's true, where did the matter come from?

transferring energy into mass and vice versa does not violate anything

This question has been asked for thousands of years.

Where did we come from? Most people will say God. Those who don't, say The Big Bang.

Then comes: Where did all that matter come from to start the Big Bang? Most people will say "I don't know" or "God".

Then comes: Who created God? Most people will say "Man".

It's an endless chicken/egg cycle.

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quote:

Originally posted by ziptnf It's an endless chicken/egg cycle.

The egg came first.

I transfer energy to mass.... in my pants.

quote:

Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY This is not baffling. You are not an academic at all. This is a very basic physics principle. Stay in school. Have a nice day.

Please just shut the fuck up.