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Lews
Platipus And Prog Addict
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Hugging Whales And Saving Trees
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 Oct-19-2009 06:14 
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sljiva
experimental
Registered: Aug 2005
Location: Zagreb
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Fuck, you can't go to sleep anymore without people fucking up the thread completely.
J, I was not comparing the sound of disc 2 with Renaissance, of course it's somewhat different, I was comparing just that one (done before) aspect of it. Admit it or not, mixes of dance music have been done prior to NE, mixes of music represented on disc 1 have not. It was unique at the time, as much as it is today. On the larger scale, difference between music on disc 2 and Renaissance 1 (or 2 for that matter) is negligible compared to difference between disc 1 and disc 2 (and anything else really).
Mixing does maybe sound a little rougher, but that's solely because of the nature of the tracks. Of course it's incomparably easier to mix straightforward dance tunes than eclectic tunes like that on disc 1, but nonetheless they did a great job, and the mixing never goes way too off. And just because a couple of tracks feature a vocal or some unusual vocal arrangement, it's foolish to discredit it as new agey or poppy. Besides what's wrong with accessible (or did you try to say interesting) melodies? I'd take any of the so-called poppy tracks from disc 1 over long, exhausting and substandard tracks like Wave Dub and The Gloom that simply go nowhere (but are allegedly not accessible, which is the single most important thing in music I guess).
When it comes to popularity, besides FSOL (and maybe Spooky), who were very popular at the time, none of the other track were well known, since most of them appeared on some limited vinyls and virtually none of them appeared on a CD compilation before. It's safe to say that without NE, most of the tracks would be forgotten nowdays.
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Oct-19-2009 08:51 
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Lews
Platipus And Prog Addict
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Hugging Whales And Saving Trees
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Oct-19-2009 09:03
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester
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| quote: | Originally posted by Existo22
More inventinly? They got two different versions of a track fading from one to the other. They got 3 tracks playing at the same time at part? Have you even heard the disk? It doesn't look like we are talking about the same disc. |
S&D had already been doing those things for several years previously, on vinyl, without Protools and much more interestingly. I've heard Sasha sets from the early 90s where he barely uses the faders, he just lets tracks play over each other for minutes on end because they're so well-matched.
| quote: | Originally posted by Existo22
Never said that but remember you are the one who brought the second disc into the conversation, unfortunately, most like due to clearance issues the second disc was never realeased in my country!  I will try to find it and give it a listen |
I didn't claim you said it. Learn to follow a fucking argument, you dolt. I was replying to sljiva. I brought the second disc into the conversation because it's half the compilation. If you loved the damn thing so much, I thought you'd have shown the initiative to import a second hand copy. Plenty of other Americans managed it.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Out of curiosity, what do you believe is the best of the NE albums? |
I'd probably say NE2. Which is to say, the UK double disc version. The first disc does the same "eclectic selection" thing, but it's much more tightly programmed, and tracks like Little Bullet (Live Version), Angel and Symphony absolutely kill. You could also argue it was an influential progressive breaks disc. And CD2 is just packed full of great trance and progressive.
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| quote: | Originally posted by sljiva
Fuck, you can't go to sleep anymore without people fucking up the thread completely.
J, I was not comparing the sound of disc 2 with Renaissance, of course it's somewhat different, I was comparing just that one (done before) aspect of it. Admit it or not, mixes of dance music have been done prior to NE, mixes of music represented on disc 1 have not. It was unique at the time, as much as it is today. On the larger scale, difference between music on disc 2 and Renaissance 1 (or 2 for that matter) is negligible compared to difference between disc 1 and disc 2 (and anything else really).
Mixing does maybe sound a little rougher, but that's solely because of the nature of the tracks. Of course it's incomparably easier to mix straightforward dance tunes than eclectic tunes like that on disc 1, but nonetheless they did a great job, and the mixing never goes way too off. And just because a couple of tracks feature a vocal or some unusual vocal arrangement, it's foolish to discredit it as new agey or poppy. Besides what's wrong with accessible (or did you try to say interesting) melodies? I'd take any of the so-called poppy tracks from disc 1 over long, exhausting and substandard tracks like Wave Dub and The Gloom that simply go nowhere (but are allegedly not accessible, which is the single most important thing in music I guess). |
I'm not denying that mixes of dance music had been done before. But I think that's overly simplifying what NE is. Compilations of ambient house and downtempo music existed before NE - I've got some crazy early 90s compilations that go from YAP to Brian Eno and then to a Generation X rock song. Crazy eclecticism wasn't born with NE.
What's really innovative about the disc is not that they mixed together a load of low-tempo breaks, but the fact they deliberately went back over six years of dance music and selected disparate tracks to create something with real longevity. Especially on such a high profile compilation. This was before all those Back To Mine/Choice style compilations existed. But the fact is they did the same thing on CD 2, just with dancefloor material.
(Regarding the mixing: it was all digital as has been mentioned, and they did some very obvious edits to make the transitions smoother. So I don't think particular credit is due for that.)
And I'm not discrediting the tracks because they are quite accessible and poppy. I'm not claiming "not accessible" is an important part of music. I'm arguing on your axis of discussion, so don't strawman me. You are the one who said the first CD is "deeper" and dismissed the second as mere "good dancefloor entertainment" that does nothing new simply because 4/4 house beats had already been mixed.
The implication that melodic listening music is deeper and more musically worthwhile than dancefloor beats is what pissed off Simon Reynolds so much when pretentious IDM and progressive house fans used to think of their music as better than hardcore or jungle.
| quote: | | When it comes to popularity, besides FSOL (and maybe Spooky), who were very popular at the time, none of the other track were well known, since most of them appeared on some limited vinyls and virtually none of them appeared on a CD compilation before. It's safe to say that without NE, most of the tracks would be forgotten nowdays. |
Granted, most of them would probably be forgotten today, but you can say the same of 90% of the tracks S&D played in the 90s. Their fame and the devotion of their fans has elevated a vast lexicon of obscure tracks into legendary status.
But, if you look at Discogs, almost every track had been on a CD compilation before. Many of them those madly eclectic downtempo "Trance-ambient" style compilations I mentioned above. In 1996, I don't think too many of these tracks were unknown, given the labels, remixers and names involved in almost every one.
___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24
Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/
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Oct-19-2009 15:03 
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Lews
Platipus And Prog Addict
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Hugging Whales And Saving Trees
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Oct-19-2009 17:08
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