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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Knee jerk reaction to Ped deaths coming? Councillor wants 10 kph less speed limits
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
A west-end city councillor is pushing for reduced speed limits the morning after the 14th pedestrian was killed on GTA roads this month.


High Park Coun. Bill Saundercook would like councillors to research the most dangerous streets in their wards, with the intent of reducing speed limits on those roadways by 10 kilometres per hour.


He is putting forward the motion Tuesday, which will be debated on Wednesday.


Saundercook’s initiative comes after a 38-year-old woman died after being struck by a SUV in midtown on Monday evening.

Toronto police say Juliette Robinson was crossing Davenport Road when she was struck by a northbound Dodge Durango turning left from Symington Avenue at about 6:25 p.m.

Sgt. Tim Burrows says she was hit by the SUV while she crossed slightly west of a marked crosswalk. Robinson was trapped under the vehicle and pronounced dead at the scene.

Robinson’s brother Everald Dawes describes the victim as a loving, caring person who had just been laid off from her job. He says the family is devastated but adds he doesn’t think reducing traffic speeds will make a difference in pedestrian deaths.

Saundercook, on the other hand, sees the speed reduction issue as an urgent one that strikes close to home. He says he has had family members die in pedestrian crashes in his ward, where he has been the councillor for 20 years.


in regards to the latest accident. Id like to know how lowering speed limits would have prevented this death? Seems to me that since the pedestrian crossed outside of the cross walk, the pedestrian was probably at most fault here. (which i see all the time... they often are too lazy to go right to the corner or start to diagionally walk down street to save time)

This comibined with the bus accident, the streetcar accident, the guy yapping on his cell phone and the jwalking elderly person. I fail to see how speed limit reduction could have prevented these deaths.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Jan-27-2010 02:20  Canada
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DeleteFromUsers
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by gummybear
please don't judge me..



I'm not judging you... Why do you think that? This isn't about you.

I don't think ANYONE should be on their phone.

Frequently enough, accidents happen when a couple of things go wrong at the same time and place. One guy is trying to make a red light and speeding/being aggressive, another guy is in a hurry to make a left-hand turn and doesn't wait for the first guy to stop. Had either driver been driving defensively, the accident wouldn't have happen. Do you see where I'm going?

Sure, most of the time nothing bad happens. There's no question. Unfortunately you may only get one chance to make a mistake. I'd feel like a piece of shit for the rest of my life if I hit someone while on my phone (my fault or not!)

Old Post Jan-27-2010 02:57  Canada
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LKD
Omni-peasant



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Its June 18th, 2005, I'm at the Skybar

quote:
Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers
Sure, most of the time nothing bad happens. There's no question.



fuck you man. nothing's happened so far using a cell phone, nothing can happen now.


___________________
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Old Post Jan-27-2010 03:26  United Arab Emirates
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Dark_Archonis
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2004
Location: Wild West, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by geroin
So what is next, lowering the highway limit to 80km/h because of the accidents? people already go 70km/h on the highway, when i drive 120 in the left lane i feel like i'm driving on a fucking authobahn in germany flying by cars to the right of me, what the fuck is going on in this city, seriously?


I'm surprised that some of you are surprised, or don't know what's going on in this city.

No wait, I'm not. Just another day in the city of Toronto.


___________________
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Old Post Jan-27-2010 03:33  Russia
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Orko
Digital Hippie



Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

LOL at some people thinking they are expert drivers. Think about it this way, if you were talking on the phone and trying to do your job, or play baseball, or fix your front steps, cook dinner, are you just as capable when not on the phone and doing any of those things? The point is that have now reserved some of your brain power for talking on the phone, rather than the task at hand.

Like DeleteFromUsers said, nothing bad happens most of the time because you usually have enough brain power to do two things. But, when the need arises tobe more attentive during an emergency situation, then that ability is diminished.
----------------------------------
The lowering of speed limits is complete bullshit. I would want the councilor to prove in medical/scientific terms, that lowering the speed would have saved those people.

If they can show that the lower speed limit would either
a) cause less bodily harm and allow the victim to survive, or
b) give the pedestrian/driver that much more time to dodge one another,
then I would be ok with lowering the limit. But I think it's pretty clear that speed was not the issue in most of these cases.

I was taking the street car home last night during rush hour, and there were quite a few close calls (not involving me). I was specifically paying attention because of the recent incidents. I was at Queen and Spadina, which is extremely busy. From what I could see, it did look like the pedestrians were being overly stupid in trying to catch the street cars, or getting across the road. Drivers had their fair share of moments, but it was mostly jay-walking.

This lends itself to the argument, why the hell are we using street cars, with islands in the middle of the street? It's just asking for trouble.

Old Post Jan-27-2010 16:42  India
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mute79
..:culture vulture:..



Registered: Feb 2001
Location: in transit

cops have been blitzing pedestrians all over the city today..

Old Post Jan-27-2010 17:12  Serbia
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love_child
TA



Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto

Old Post Jan-27-2010 17:24  Canada
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daves
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2005
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
in regards to the latest accident. Id like to know how lowering speed limits would have prevented this death? Seems to me that since the pedestrian crossed outside of the cross walk, the pedestrian was probably at most fault here. (which i see all the time... they often are too lazy to go right to the corner or start to diagionally walk down street to save time)

This comibined with the bus accident, the streetcar accident, the guy yapping on his cell phone and the jwalking elderly person. I fail to see how speed limit reduction could have prevented these deaths.


[devil's advocate] - driving slower should mean both the potential to stop in an emergency before hitting someone... and that also an impact at lower speeds is less likely to result in a fatality.

but realistically... with the way people drive in toronto (i would be surprised if any less than 2/3 of GTA drivers would agree that a 60kph speed limit means to go 70kph) i don't think this would accomplish anything more than greater revenue on speeding tickets.

...maybe that is the goal here?

Old Post Jan-27-2010 17:51  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

quote:
Originally posted by daves
[devil's advocate] - driving slower should mean both the potential to stop in an emergency before hitting someone... and that also an impact at lower speeds is less likely to result in a fatality.

but realistically... with the way people drive in toronto (i would be surprised if any less than 2/3 of GTA drivers would agree that a 60kph speed limit means to go 70kph) i don't think this would accomplish anything more than greater revenue on speeding tickets.

...maybe that is the goal here?


i think that is the goal.

Whats the answer today to stop jwalkers? is it an informational campaign? Is it a change in liability placement? Nope... fines.. and lots of them

Why? Mo money mo money mo money!

Every time there is a crisis the government is there to save us from ourselves with fines up the ass.

Drive slower or we will fine u! cross here or we will fine you!

The simple solution would be this. If you are jwalking and u get hit you are automatically at fault as a pedestrian. Even if a driver sees you and u still get mowed down its your fault. And be equally tough on drivers when its a cross walk.

That to me is the only way to get through to people's thick skulls. Pedestrians walk around arrogantly in this city because they have been given a license to do so. We have developed this culture through the idea that "pedestrians are always right even when they are wrong" and we are now reaping the rewards.

And the governments answer? Fines of course!!


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Jan-27-2010 20:23  Canada
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Jayx1
Prime Minister of TOTA



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: The Socialist People's Republic Of Canada

When even the car hating Toronto Star is writing a front page article about Jwalkers, you know its bad!

But of course they advocate fines as well as if thats going to solve the issue!


quote:
Is jaywalking part of Toronto's culture?Published On Wed Jan 27 2010


Noor Javed


Staff Reporter They are ruthless. They are fearless. They are breaking the law.

With a phone in one hand, lunch in the other, they are also impressively persistent. Nothing, it seems, can thwart a Toronto jaywalker in progress: not the fear of being ticketed, not a horde of speeding cars nor even the daunting size of a truck passing within inches.

At a jaywalking hot spot on Yonge St., just north of Front St., the Star watched people randomly cross the street during the busy lunch rush. In 45 minutes, more than 45 people illegally crossed the road – some of them even forcing a police car to stop to let them cross.

The officer could have given the dozen pedestrians tickets or at least warnings. By law, failing to use a crosswalk or disobeying a "don't walk" signal is a traffic offence warranting a fine of $85.

"Is that so? I had no idea," said Sima Persaud as she crossed in plain sight of the police car. The officer drove off and she went on her way.

Clearly, many of us have been able to avoid reprimand, although Toronto police say they have dished out nearly 225 tickets to pedestrians so far this year.

But on a street like Yonge, where would the police even begin? Would they ticket the two guys in the midst of a deep conversation while they jaywalked? Or the man eating his lunch and talking on the phone as he crossed the street? Or would they stop the group of jaywalkers, who clearly believe there is safety in large numbers?

While the law might not be enough to persuade us to start using a crosswalk, the latest spate of pedestrian deaths mightbe.

In the past month, 14 pedestrians across the GTA have been killed simply trying to cross a street. According to police and witnesses, many of them were jaywalking.

On Monday night, a 38-year-old woman was killed crossing Davenport Rd. near Symington Ave. She was just a few short steps away from a large crosswalk.

The unusually high number of pedestrian deaths has even politicians concerned.

On Tuesday, Toronto Mayor David Miller pleaded with both pedestrians and drivers to be aware when on the road.

"We need Torontonians to help out, too," he said. "Please pay attention."

In Kitchener, Premier Dalton McGuinty dug even deeper: "There is a need to find out if there's something new that's happening that wasn't there before – if this is a coincidence or if this is the result of the advent of different attitudes or if this is the result of different ways we're conducting our lives."

According to some sheepish pedestrians who were caught in the act Tuesday, jaywalking is just part of the culture of Toronto. Why walk a few metres and cross safely, when I can cross from here right now?

"The pace of life in Toronto is so fast," said John Robertson.

"You always feel like you are in a rush, and that you have to rush. Walking to a crosswalk doesn't fit into that."

But many of the jaywalkers admitted that the recent tragic news had made them more cautious about crossing in the middle of a block.

"I am a lot more careful," said Dale Chilvers.

"I watch a lot more closely when I walk. I am too young to die."

But does he ever plan to stop?

"I don't know. I still do it. Everybody does."



quote:
THE FOUR SPECIES OF JAYWALKERS
ROADRUNNERS: These speedsters dart across the street whenever there is even a small opening in traffic. They don't look up and make no eye contact with drivers.

CHICKENS: They look both ways before crossing the road. They wait for a break in traffic and say a prayer as they cross the street in a run. They give a prayer of thanks when they reach the other side.

OSTRICHES: These rule-breakers don't actually have their heads in the sane, but in their world traffic doesn't seem to exist. Often on the phone or in rapt conversation, they ignore the hazards as they cross the street, usually safely.

PEACOCKS: These confident jaywalkers look both ways, just once, and calmly strut across the street when the coast is clear. No awkward running. No close calls.


I have no problem with "peacocks". Im a peacock all the time. Jwalking is fine as long as no cars are coming. The moment a car has to slow down or stop for you is when there is a problem.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by jester
Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Old Post Jan-27-2010 20:28  Canada
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LKD
Omni-peasant



Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Its June 18th, 2005, I'm at the Skybar


___________________
www.elkdee.com
Soundcloud sampler: www.soundcloud.com/elkdee

Old Post Jan-27-2010 20:33  United Arab Emirates
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love_child
TA



Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by Jayx1
i think that is the goal.

Whats the answer today to stop jwalkers? is it an informational campaign? Is it a change in liability placement? Nope... fines.. and lots of them

Why? Mo money mo money mo money!

Every time there is a crisis the government is there to save us from ourselves with fines up the ass.

Drive slower or we will fine u! cross here or we will fine you!

The simple solution would be this. If you are jwalking and u get hit you are automatically at fault as a pedestrian. Even if a driver sees you and u still get mowed down its your fault. And be equally tough on drivers when its a cross walk.

That to me is the only way to get through to people's thick skulls. Pedestrians walk around arrogantly in this city because they have been given a license to do so. We have developed this culture through the idea that "pedestrians are always right even when they are wrong" and we are now reaping the rewards.

And the governments answer? Fines of course!!


But that still doesnt give the right for a driver to plow through a pedestrian if they are jay-walking in front of them.

Old Post Jan-27-2010 20:40  Canada
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > Knee jerk reaction to Ped deaths coming? Councillor wants 10 kph less speed limits
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