aNYthing you're spot on. In the end it only matters that we are doing what we do for the right reasons for ourselves. That's the point I was trying to get across to Steven. If someone wants to use Catanya as he alluded to and can make great work; fuck it! I want more meaning and satisfaction in my own productions than that but I can't force others into that same thought process.

At the end of the day we are providing to clients (the fans) and all of the other shit other than the end product is meaningless to them. So whatever gets you to make your best work and be satisfied with HOW you got there is acceptable to me.

There will always be people trying to make a quick buck by making something easier. That doesn't mean everyone has to use the product to it's full power.

quote:

Originally posted by palm something original please

PM me with your top 5 artists or tracks from '09 so I can get an idea of your style and I'll get you a solid list

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 aNYthing you're spot on. In the end it only matters that we are doing what we do for the right reasons for ourselves. That's the point I was trying to get across to Steven. If someone wants to use Catanya as he alluded to and can make great work; fuck it! I want more meaning and satisfaction in my own productions than that but I can't force others into that same thought process. At the end of the day we are providing to clients (the fans) and all of the other shit other than the end product is meaningless to them. So whatever gets you to make your best work and be satisfied with HOW you got there is acceptable to me. There will always be people trying to make a quick buck by making something easier. That doesn't mean everyone has to use the product to it's full power.

Well said man.

Cheers from Seattle.

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Last edited by TranceLover007 on Feb-03-2010 at 23:02

The problem here is that most people seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Catanya is and isn't and many of you seem to have it confused with a step sequencer. It's an arp - that's it. It won't write a song for you, or a chord progression, or a melody. It doesn't even create the "one-finger wonders" that so many step sequencers (e.g., Thesys) will, because it doesn't create sequences of intervals relative to a held note - it only plays back the notes (+/- octaves) that the user puts into it. All it does is take the notes in the chord that the user plays or pencils into the piano roll and plays a pattern out of it and sends that MIDI off to whatever synth(s) you want it to. It's no different than the arp that is built into 3/4 of the synths on the market, except that instead of having only the up, down, up/down, and random directions, it has unlimited variations, including 1200 categorized presets, all of which are freely editable. You only have control over which note is triggered within the chord(s) that the user must play or enter in the piano roll, the range of octaves, and the velocity. That's it.

In most respects, it's hardly any different than penciling the arp into a piano roll and, in fact, the beauty of Catanya is that it's much quicker than penciling the notes in because it uses a very intuitive grid from which you choose which notes from your chords (i.e., not intervals relative to the notes in your chord) and the timing/length at which they are trigger/held (i.e., almost like a piano roll). It makes it very easy to try out different arp patterns and quickly change them, and with the ability to save the pattern. Plus, you can record the MIDI notes into your piano roll for further editing.

As far as the presets go - they aren't going to create a song for you, but they also aren't limited to up, down, up/down, and random as most arps are. It's funny that I don't hear any of you bitching about how something as elemental as those basic and widely used patterns aren't destroying the fabric of EDM, but more advanced arp patterns in Catanya are? That's ridiculous, particularly in light of the fact that almost everybody here uses something as basic and uncreative as oom-pah bass/kick patterns and consider it standard fare. Perhaps the greatest irony is that some of you are bemoaning Catanya under false assumptions, while praising Thesys, which actually does allow the user to create "one-finger wonders" and comes with a ton of presets doing exactly that - you hold down a note and, bam, instant melody - all of the note intervals and modulations are already done for you. Of course, Thesys does much more than that and is a very powerful tool, but the point is, Catanya doesn't do what some of you are bitching about, while Thesys and most other step sequencers do.

I think many of you should actually sit down with the demos for a few hours and understand what each one does and how they work, and learn the difference between and arp and a step sequencer before carrying on about this anymore.

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Last edited by cryophonik on Feb-04-2010 at 00:15

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik The problem here is that most people seem to have no fundamental misunderstanding of what Catanya is and isn't and many of you seem to have it confused with a step sequencer. It's an arp - that's it. It won't write a song for you, or a chord progression, or a melody. It doesn't even create the "one-finger wonders" that so many step sequencers (e.g., Thesys) will, because it doesn't create sequences of intervals relative to a held note - it only plays back the notes (+/- octaves) that the user puts into it. All it does is take the notes in the chord that the user plays or pencils into the piano roll and plays a pattern out of it and sends that MIDI off to whatever synth(s) you want it to. It's no different than the arp that is built into 3/4 of the synths on the market, except that instead of having only the up, down, up/down, and random directions, it has unlimited variations, including 1200 categorized presets, all of which are freely editable. You only have control over which note is triggered within the chord(s) that the user must play or enter in the piano roll, the range of octaves, and the velocity. That's it. In most respects, it's hardly any different than penciling the arp into a piano roll and, in fact, the beauty of Catanya is that it's much quicker than penciling the notes in because it uses a very intuitive grid from which you choose which notes from your chords (i.e., not intervals relative to the notes in your chord) and the timing/length at which they are trigger/held (i.e., almost like a piano roll). It makes it very easy to try out different arp patterns and quickly change them, and with the ability to save the pattern. Plus, you can record the MIDI notes into your piano roll for further editing. As far as the presets go - they aren't going to create a song for you, but they also aren't limited to up, down, up/down, and random as most arps are. It's funny that I don't hear any of you bitching about how something as elemental as those basic and widely used patterns aren't destroying the fabric of EDM, but more advanced arp patterns in Catanya are? That's ridiculous, particularly in light of the fact that almost everybody here uses something as basic and uncreative as oom-pah bass/kick patterns and consider it standard fare. Perhaps the greatest irony is that some of you are bemoaning Catanya under false assumptions, while praising Thesys, which actually does allow the user to create "one-finger wonders" and comes with a ton of presets doing exactly that - you hold down a note and, bam, instant melody - all of the note intervals and modulations are already done for you. Of course, Thesys does much more than that and is a very powerful tool, but the point is, Catanya doesn't do what some of you are bitching about, while Thesys and most other step sequencers do. I think many of you should actually sit down with the demos for a few hours and understand what each one does and how they work, and learn the difference between and arp and a step sequencer before carrying on about this anymore.

ARPs don't kill EDM... Tiesto +Roland JP 8xxx does.

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quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 My explanation for that is that he has no motivation to make better house/trance than you. Knowing myself when I am unmotivated I couldn't produce the theme to sesame street but when I am motivated I have made some great stuff. The mind is a fragile tool and the most important thing in life as a producer is knowing how to manipulate it to do what you want.

He is anything but unmotivated. He's rather into it and likes it a lot but doesn't grasp the long tension buildups trance/house has. It is unlike pretty much any other genre.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

i find some EDM just as impressive as some classical and rock/pop. They are very different and require different skills. There isn't anything in classical you could show me that I wouldn't know how to do or analyze. There is alot of EDM stuff that puzzles me.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 That's untrue. EDM is very simple. All you need is to be studious, determined and put in the time. There are no shortcuts it's all about putting in the time. I would agree with you on the Bolier reference. But if you have a working knowledge of theory then you'd know that his tracks are not difficult to make. How do you think he puts out 40-50 a year?

I don't think Leons tracks are easy to make mate. Leon is a true master of his craft If its easy why aren't you putting out 40-50 tracks a year at the same standard? Its a simple question with a simple equation Its not 40-50 btw.. its around 10 a year. Leon is gifted, its simple to hear if you have an ear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_7dR0RuMCg

I had a very long reply written, I listened to this and it told me its not worth it, neither is it worth it telling its not worth it, so again I see myself ashamed at what Im doing, but ok..

Other points you make are good, I just disagree that its simple art, because it all depends on what your reference tracks are within the genre Theres good and bad pieces of music within every genre. I know you know that aswell, but its a fact you have to keep in mind when generalizing a genre for being "easier to make," or what could be implied as being "lesser." Also theres lots more trash inside EDM because it's so easy to start playing around with. We all know that, and it facilitates the prejudice and generalization factor of the genre a whole lot.

Some things to think about :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS0Oo19ijz0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Y2r-o5mQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FwbsSdWh-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A54ARXaHLoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CC0pgmqEqQ

I don't think it's all theory and simple art,
I think it is a bit of self-expression and a heart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c52KR9e_wU

Listen man.. it's so much emotion I have trouble standing on my feet when I listen to this, as his emotions rushes from him, through the music into me! Thats what it's all about. It's so majestetic, just so majestetic and powerful it overflows, can't you hear it.. it is a godsend. One should live in awe of a man like Leon, not call his art simple. I cry so easily to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vloSmBrOfys

Tears flowing down my chin.. This doesn't come from theory alone.

For the record, Im not trying to give you bad thoughts.. Cause I believe you create great music, but I don't believe its all theory. I believe you have some sort of talent for expressing yourself through music, whether you know it or not, else you wouldn't be here. Not everyone has that. People are tone-deaf man. People have no sense of rhythm at all.

------------------------------

Anyway folks, I find myself spending too much time on here so this will be the last time you see me for I don't know how long.. Much love and respect, and I wish you all good fortune and best of luck with music and life in general from now on forward!

Bye guys.. I have really loved the forum and it has helped me in so many ways, from the time I started browsing it some 5 years ago.. but it takes up too much of my time as it is now, so I'll have to say goodbye!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9SN9Rm16M

Last edited by lenieNt Force on Feb-04-2010 at 16:20

not to side track your arguments but all those tracks sound like derivative shit that was done better 10 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV not to side track your arguments but all those tracks sound like derivative shit that was done better 10 years ago.

Well.. what can I say.. congrats with both thinking that and listening through all the tracks in 5 min.. Thats an accomplishment..

it isn't hard when all the ideas can be grasped in 8 bars.