quote:

Originally posted by risklevel First of all it is quite remarkable how you expect an offcial website of the Israeli foreign ministry to be 'unbiased'.

Note to LightsOut: Hopefully, now you understand what I was talking about, and why I wrote what I did.

To "risklevel":

Did I say it was unbiased? No.

Did I say that it was accurate, that it has a complete annotated list of incidents to support its reported static, and that all of these are easy to fact-check individually? Yes.

Did you have anything at all to say about that? No.

Did you present any facts or arguments relevant to the topic? No.

Empty rhetoric and red herrings. Surprise, surprise.

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quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer Funny how Israel always bitch and moans why everyone hates them etc etc.

I've known a few Isrealis, and I've never known one of them to bitch about what anyone thinks. They don't give a fuck. Personally i think it's a negative not a positive, but i find it amusing how earlier you were making them out to be bullys and then a couple comments later they're moaners.

I don't follow any of this but isn't it funny that the political landscape in Israel went from that woman who wanted to remove all jewish settlements by force nearly being elected to a right wing netanyahu govt in a heartbeat? I mean didn't she take the popular vote in the last elections? wow

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan the joos dont care what the rest of the world thinks of them...

what he said

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Note to LightsOut: Hopefully, now you understand what I was talking about, and why I wrote what I did. To "risklevel": Did I say it was unbiased? No. Did I say that it was accurate, that it has a complete annotated list of incidents to support its reported static, and that all of these are easy to fact-check individually? Yes. Did you have anything at all to say about that? No. Did you present any facts or arguments relevant to the topic? No. Empty rhetoric and red herrings. Surprise, surprise.

wow, you really miss the point dont you. how am i or anyone supposed to fact-check these events individually? by typing it on google? information checking is not that simple. The information could very well be tweaked. The point i was trying to make is that by defending Israel as to how many people have been killed you cannot suggest it is acceptable for them to carry out all the injustice on the Palestinian people. Either you have tunnel vision or you might just be immune to all the condemnations from the UN and other European countries. Its almost as if you think that killing a Palestinian civilian is the right of Israel. Israel was accused of crimes against humanity last year in the siege of Gaza by the UN. The IDF used white phosphorous on civilians, I mean chemical weapons? Your argument about the problem of all Palestinians being civilians is ridiculous. The IDF bombed schools as well, are you going to say they did not know where the schools were, i hope you are not so naive.
About relevant argument, i am not in your classroom to be told what i can argue on. I was making a more general argument of achieving peace through a two state solution by using the point you had made. With each day the world sees how Israelis are treating the Palestininans. Just to see what you think on the issue you must be aware of the Jenin camp in 2002. I am trying to find the video where Terje Roed-Larsen (UN inspection team) says very emotionally that the camp was "horrific beyond belief" and that it was "morally repugnant" that Israel had not allowed emergency workers into the camp for 11 days. Justify that. I also want to ask you, do you want Palestinians to have a separate homeland or do you think that Israel has the moral right to deny them their basic human right?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Note to LightsOut: Hopefully, now you understand what I was talking about, and why I wrote what I did.

Yeah fair enough, politics always seem to incite quite the little heated debates on this board, no hard feelings

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quote:

Originally posted by Angx My question is for the U.N. WHY THE FUUUCK does Israel have Nukes???? Why hasn't any one stepped in to see what they are hiding?? As for the USA its about time they grew a pair of balls. Considering that the Israelies have most of the polliticians in their pocket how far will Obama get?

What nukes? Shit where is Iraq's WMD? Fuck its like asking Where is Waldo? At least with Where is Waldo, you can find him

Obama will not get far. Honestly no President will ever get far. They would need some KKK member to gain power, but that will never happen. If that happened a civil war would most likely break out seconds later.

The only thing Israel is hiding is probably the remains of Jesus lol

Plus if Israel did have "nukes" they can never use them. It is a means of striking fear in others (its a form of defense).

Honestly if any country uses a nuclear weapon in this day in age, they do not care for the safety of their citizens.

Plus if any country used a nuclear weapon on Israel. Thats a big problem, its in acting another holocaust and that country is trying to destroy thousands of years of history / religion. Your not just attacking Judaism, your going after Christianity, Islam and Bahai faith.

Last edited by jester on Mar-27-2010 at 15:48

quote:

Originally posted by risklevel wow, you really miss the point dont you. how am i or anyone supposed to fact-check these events individually? by typing it on google? information checking is not that simple.

So even though every single item on that page is carefully sourced, you hand-wave it away on the grounds that it is not simple to check.

You summarily dismiss thousands of verifiable facts in favour of your own vague, unverifiable, hostile opinion.

Middle-Eastern politics at its finest, folks. I don't know fuck-all about what's really going on down there and I'm not really interested in learning, but I'm pissed off and not about to let anyone forget it!

quote:

Just to see what you think on the issue you must be aware of the Jenin camp in 2002.

You mean the so-called "massacre" that the media stringers reported on, the tempest-in-a-teapot that opened a significant portion of the western world's eyes to "Pallywood" and proved conclusively that neither the U.N. nor the mass media could be trusted to conduct themselves responsibly in the Middle East?

Yeah, I'm aware of it.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut So even though every single item on that page is carefully sourced, you hand-wave it away on the grounds that it is not simple to check. You summarily dismiss thousands of verifiable facts in favour of your own vague, unverifiable, hostile opinion. Middle-Eastern politics at its finest, folks. I don't know fuck-all about what's really going on down there and I'm not really interested in learning, but I'm pissed off and not about to let anyone forget it! You mean the so-called "massacre" that the media stringers reported on, the tempest-in-a-teapot that opened a significant portion of the western world's eyes to "Pallywood" and proved conclusively that neither the U.N. nor the mass media could be trusted to conduct themselves responsibly in the Middle East? Yeah, I'm aware of it.

Vague? I dont think i can be any clearer or coherent. Verifiable? Am i only supposed to give you sources from the Israeli Defense ministry or Israel media? It seems likely that these are the only ones you trust because the UN and the world media must be out to get Israel right? Obviously in your eyes Israel can do no wrong, how could they, as long as Palestinians are firing rockets into Israel Israel has the right to indiscriminately kill civilians at will. Theyr so efficient at it too, i must admit.

you want verifiable source? Let me give you the latest idea of how Israel conducts itself. This is regarding the siege of Gaza. The Jewish South African former Supreme court judge Richard Goldstone (head of fact finding mission) said Israel should face charges against crime of humanity. The report can be found here
report ..

Maybe if you had bothered to read such reports you wouldnt have such a biased view and it is very clear to me that you dont know much about Israeli conduct. Refer to point number 517 and 518. The director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA says 'There is nowhere safe in Gaza. Everyone here is terrorized and traumatized'. Israel had managed to terrorize the Palestinian people by shutting their water supply, denying any emergency help and indiscriminate bombing. These findings are coherent in the report and consistently mentioned. definitely go over CHAPTER 10 AND CHAPTER 11 regarding the deliberate and targeted killings of civilians and the use of certain weapons (such as the white phosphorous). Now obviously according to you the UN report cant be trusted because they dont know how to conduct themselves in Middle Eastern politics, you really should be given a medal for ignorance.

Another report
http://www.alhaq.org/pdfs/Legal_Bri...st_Lead_Jan.pdf .
Hopefully you are pissed off because the world is not blind anymore. One day Israel will be accountable for their actions and one thing is clear with their recent attitude they do not want peace.

quote:

Originally posted by jester Plus if Israel did have "nukes" they can never use them. It is a means of striking fear in others (its a form of defense).

IF? Just because Israel has never declared they have nukes doesn't mean they don't. In fact, Israel is very clear (has been since the late 60's) that they would not be the first state to "introduce" nuclear weapons to the region.... they (by they I mean Yitzhak Rabin then ambasador to the US) defined "introduce" as weapons "would not be tested and declared, whereas simply possessing them did not constitute introducing them." Honestly, this is a pretty clear declaration that they have them but they will not confirm it. Additionally, your assertion that nuclear weapons are a defense is quite right; however, that is exactly how they are "used" to prevent invasion.

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quote:

Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut So even though every single item on that page is carefully sourced, you hand-wave it away on the grounds that it is not simple to check. You summarily dismiss thousands of verifiable facts in favour of your own vague, unverifiable, hostile opinion. Middle-Eastern politics at its finest, folks. I don't know fuck-all about what's really going on down there and I'm not really interested in learning, but I'm pissed off and not about to let anyone forget it! You mean the so-called "massacre" that the media stringers reported on, the tempest-in-a-teapot that opened a significant portion of the western world's eyes to "Pallywood" and proved conclusively that neither the U.N. nor the mass media could be trusted to conduct themselves responsibly in the Middle East? Yeah, I'm aware of it.

You're so biased on this issue that I can't even fucking read your opinions. It is impossible to have a healthy debate with you about this topic because you will NEVER accept that you are being driven by your allegiance to one side. It's so #$^%$*&^%*(%^ annoying especially since you come off as such an insulting pseudo intellectual elitist.

Props to the actual intellects in this thread who actually use their brains and examine situations from a realist and objective point of view, rather than spewing a bunch of one sided shit wrapped up in pretty prose. No offense Digi, but you to me are not a progressive thinker.

Anybody who has a half a fuckin brain and looks at thing objectively, can see that what is going on in that region is and has been utterly disgusting but things will never change. It's not about right and wrong. It's about allegiances, money, power, world domination and a bunch of other messed up shit that rules this world. That sad part is that human lives mean shit.

The facts are the facts. Remove your bias, hate or whatever is clouding your judgement and then, you will see the situation for what it is.

ps. moving sucks. I hate everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by jester Plus if any country used a nuclear weapon on Israel. Thats a big problem, its in acting another holocaust and that country is trying to destroy thousands of years of history / religion.

are you trying to say that because they indured holocaust they should be allowed to do whatever they want to??

and fyi, around 25 millions russians died in ww2, 2/3 of that was civilian deaths

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quote:

Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty are you trying to say that because they indured holocaust they should be allowed to do whatever they want to??

Thats also my question too. Just because they indured holocaust it doesnt give them rights to kill as many as they can. shouldnt they be more compassionate towards other humans?

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