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Originally posted by DjWoody And that happened to me before way back when Spundae was at Circus. That day it wasn't just Serato that crashed, my motherboard fried!!!! Luckily, I always bring CD's with me so I finished off my set with CD's.

Damn, not the place I would want that to happen!!!

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Back in the days of good ol’ wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there. The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it’s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress. I needed to accept that it’s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can’t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment. I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it’s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let’s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name? One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it’s just us we don’t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn’t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It’s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music. I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren’t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference. Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn’t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point. This doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can’t beat them with your game, beat them at their game. Cheers Nem

You grew up didn't you? Awesome read by the way.

I totally like used to like Sasha and stuff but now like he uses a DVS and stuff so he's totally like not a good DJ anymore. Hawtin totally suxxxorz too.

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Originally posted by n3lly Here you go lads, 28 years ago. "For the people that don't know what a turntable is"

He's using sony walkman headphones!!

I started on CDJs but I bought 1200 TT's to learn playing vinyl. In the future I'll use Traktor or use a midi controller and do a "live set". I'm not just a DJ, i'm into my technology so it's enjoyable for me to try new things out.

But I also agree, if you're learning to DJ, at least start out with CDs or vinyl so you understand the technical background etc.

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Originally posted by Ash Parajuli But I also agree, if you're learning to DJ, at least start out with CDs or vinyl so you understand the technical background etc.

Really helps you learn and appreciate your tracks as well.

Yes, as you usually learn to hear what works with what better, even at a sub-conscious level. I'm still hearing and recognising why certain tracks worked so well together in very old mixes of mine, back then I just 'knew' they worked. If you start DJ'ing day one and don't spend hours learning to beat match, you don't cultivate this skill either.

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Originally posted by Kris G Yes, as you usually learn to hear what works with what better, even at a sub-conscious level. I'm still hearing and recognising why certain tracks worked so well together in very old mixes of mine, back then I just 'knew' they worked. If you start DJ'ing day one and don't spend hours learning to beat match, you don't cultivate this skill either.

That's a good point.

the other point combined with this, is that a laptop DJ can now turn up to a gig with no idea of how to beatmatch (and therefore in many cases with not a lot of time invested in to DJ'ing at all) and just play the music they have the drive. IMO, I think the quality of DJ's has gone down overall as you don't need to invest anywhere near as much time in to learning the craft as a whole. It's sometimes a case of just turn up and be nothing more than a jukebox.

Yeah, yeah "it's about track selection" etc, but how do you get to being good at track selection? How do you "just know" when things are going to work well together?

Practice & Investment (of time, not money). I'm not saying someone that can't beatmatch can't learn these other apsects, but in my experience, they're at a disadvantage as they didn't go through all those learning curves (and other pearls of wisdom/understanding) of having to work traditional DJ equipment.

I don't see why mixing with Traktor is any different than mixing with cdjs except you are just getting rid of the middle man (i.e the cds). It's so easy to beatmatch with cdjs that they might as well have a synch button.

People place way too much emphasis on beat matching when in fact it is just a means to an end. For the guy on the dancefloor it's all about the end product and if new technology helps improve that I'm all for it!

By the way I learnt to mix on Technic 1210s and still play my vinyl but I am seriously tempted by Traktor as it is looks so convenient to have you whole music collection right there in front of you on a hard drive.

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Originally posted by slaid05 I don't see why mixing with Traktor is any different than mixing with cdjs except you are just getting rid of the middle man (i.e the cds). It's so easy to beatmatch with cdjs that they might as well have a synch button. People place way too much emphasis on beat matching when in fact it is just a means to an end. For the guy on the dancefloor it's all about the end product and if new technology helps improve that I'm all for it! By the way I learnt to mix on Technic 1210s and still play my vinyl but I am seriously tempted by Traktor as it is looks so convenient to have you whole music collection right there in front of you on a hard drive.

Get Traktor and then say this.
It's very difficult to completely pry yourself away from looking at the screen.
You're not just removing the middle man. You're removing the skill it takes to know your music as well as you used to have to.

Also i don't completely agree with the "might as well have a sync button on cdj's" comment asI don't think it's as piss easy as you're making it out to be. Yeah it's not that difficult but it does require a good few months of practicing! And you can still have your off days after years of playing.

Steve

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Originally posted by n3lly Get Traktor and then say this. It's very difficult to completely pry yourself away from looking at the screen. You're not just removing the middle man. You're removing the skill it takes to know your music as well as you used to have to. Also i don't completely agree with the "might as well have a sync button on cdj's" comment asI don't think it's as piss easy as you're making it out to be. Yeah it's not that difficult but it does require a good few months of practicing! And you can still have your off days after years of playing. Steve

Very good points, and even though most know my sentiments on this fact, I'll still add that you may remove the middleamn of CD's, but you're replacing that with a screen that acts as both a physical and psychological barrier between you and the crowd.

As a DJ, dancing away and mixing while staring at a screen just simply does not have the same connection as someone whipping on a CD or vinyl and then just working the mixer. I believe even those few seconds to stare at a screen to select the next track, is enough to create a disconnect between th DJ, music and crowd.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I believe even those few seconds to stare at a screen to select the next track, is enough to create a disconnect between th DJ, music and crowd.

whats the difference between picking a next song looking at a screen, or turning your back to a crowd to fiddle through a cd wallet for the next song?