ive actually yet to hear cool tracks using roland equipment only (samplers not taken to consideration).
May-12-2011 17:12
nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by enydo
I always thought it was just literally about LSD.
well that's certainly probably where the word comes from, and one reason why it stuck.
but the discussion comes from whether a track with a beat and a 303 is automatically 'acid house', as SYSTEM J contents. That would mean the raga disco stuff is 'acid house'.
My contention is that acid house was a cultural movement, and its music has a broader definition, and that because it was cultural in nature, only something connected to the movement can be acid house. since the raga disco record was developed independently, it's just an electronic dance track with a 303 in it.
May-12-2011 17:15
Zak McKracken
Trance
Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
some might get a clue where i got all my oldschool house references from now lol.
im with nefardec on this one, acid is alot more than just a 303. 303 came in later imo. and made it suck.
josh wink - higher state is probably the least acid track ive ever heard.
May-12-2011 17:15
nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by clay
is this acid?
maybe acid techno. but it doesn't jack enough. acid pops rhythmically
this is acid techno
and it's a great example because it shows how it is the rhythm and the modulation technique are the foundation of acid, not the specific result of the sound or instrument, though the sound in general is electronic, rough, unadultered, alien.
May-12-2011 17:21
SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
now you are really grasping at straws - your last defense is to accuse of me self aggrandizement simply because I am defending a position about the discussion we're both having.
I don't really need a "defence" because your position is self-contradictory and quite evidently being made up on the spot. Acid is a movement. No, it's a genre. Here are the characteristics. Here's a track that doesn't fit them that apparently could be called acid. It's a joke, and it's more interesting to figure why I'm being subjected to it.
You want a basis in "reality" (whatever the fuck that means in this discussion)? Is John McCready ignorant? He was writing about acid house in 1988 and was the first British journalist to write about Detroit techno. I'd say he qualifies as an "electronic music historian", so let's see what he has to say:
quote:
The great Marshall Jefferson once told me that nobody in Chicago could get anything out of this silver machine so someone came up with the solution of taking the batteries out, putting them back in, switching 303 on and seeing what happened. That could explain a lot of the nonsensical, impossible genius of early acid. The batteries story is probably bollocks but, then again, pre-1987 you’d have died of shock had you heard someone strolling down the street whistling ‘Acid Tracks’. As a result of records like this the 303 became known as the acid machine. Acid, put simply, is the sound made by a constantly repeating pattern modulated with the little knobs on the top of the machine so it becomes more bassy, then extreme or squelchy and distorted. Most of the great acid records consist of a drum pattern and someone twisting these knobs round for an hour or two. Boring now, I know, but it sounded like all hell was being let loose back then. The fact that the 303 died a creative death several years back did not however stop Josh Wink from making a career out of shaking his fake dreads around, hunched over a 303 treating us to the house equivalent of a sad metal guitar solo.
"The acid squiggle was there to start with," Pierre has said. "The machine already had that crazy acid sound in it that you were supposed to erase and put your own in..."
From Simon Reynolds - Generation Ecstasy. You can find it on Google Books. Take a wild guess at which machine he's referring to.
Originally posted by clay
im with nefardec on this one, acid is alot more than just a 303. 303 came in later imo. and made it suck.
303 was always around but the sound of tb303 became like a fetish and people started clinging to it. not unlike the wobble of dubstep.
May-12-2011 17:25
Zak McKracken
Trance
Registered: Jun 2003
Location:
meh plastikman and his 808 sux, i wouldnt call that house at all. belongs to hip hop breakdance tracks but his stuff is just detroit techno or something. acid needs a hook imo.
May-12-2011 17:27
nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
finally.
but i still don't see how you've proved anything given that i've already presented a lot of sources from others besides mccready that contradict that.
and you yourself discredited phuture.
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
EDIT: And of course Phuture were crap. That's the whole reason their story is more memorable, because they're a classic example of something being discovered by absolute incompetent luck.
who knows if they would have had another machine they would have created acid with that too. after all, they were just turning knobs, right?
Last edited by nefardec on May-12-2011 at 17:38
May-12-2011 17:28
nefardec
Tranceaddict in tranning
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
quote:
Originally posted by clay
meh plastikman and his 808 sux, i wouldnt call that house at all. belongs to hip hop breakdance tracks but his stuff is just detroit techno or something. acid needs a hook imo.
PLASTIKMAN is the main recording identity for Richie Hawtin (aka Plastikman, FUSE, Circuit Breaker, From Within to name a few). Since his debut as States of Mind and FUSE in 1990 to the launch of Plastikman in 1992, his sound has developed through early connotations of acidic techno and extreme levels of energy (1993's 'Spastik') to sonic experiments in futuristic-rhythms and off-world ambience (1998's 'Consumed' LP). More minimal approaches were evident through his year long 12-record project 'Concept 1' from 1996. His recording attention is matched head-on by his groundbreaking DJ performances, which incorporate turntables, effects processors and additional instruments (the 909 drum machine and Roland SH-101 synthesizer). His world-renown enhanced DJ set-up of DECKS, EFX & 909 has kept pushing the boundaries of what a DJ can do by increasing the potential of creativity through once again, technology.
May-12-2011 17:36
SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.
Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
but the discussion comes from whether a track with a beat and a 303 is automatically 'acid house', as SYSTEM J contents. That would mean the raga disco stuff is 'acid house'.
That's not what I'm contenting, or contending, at all. Strawman any harder? I'm saying the 303, particularly the tweaked 303, is acid. A track can contain acid without being "acid house", which is why genres like acid techno, acid trance and acid breaks exist. In all of these cases, the TB-303 is the predominant sound. So a trance record predominantly using the 303 would be acid trance. You can also get acid cropping up in genres not named "acid" at all. Any track can contain an acid section or an acid riff, but unless the acid is the focal point of the track it's highly unlikely to be dubbed "acid [whatever]".
Ten Ragas is not acid house because it's not house. It also doesn't predominantly feature the 303. The 303 is pretty secondary. It doesn't rewrite acid house history because it quite obviously had no influence on the use of TB-303s in the Chicago house scene.
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
and you yourself discredited phuture.
