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Originally posted by enydo I don't really get why people would care. Possibly that the idea is just that revolting to them? Even then, I still don't understand, but I personally have no problem with transgender anything. More power to you. As cliche as "it's the internet" sounds, there is certainly something to be said for it being the internet. Trolling is just fun.

See that's just it...

I don't care what this guy wears or how he identifies himself...

I don't feel that he's inferior because he wants to see himself as a woman...

He is not revolting to me in the least...

I have no problem with anything that he does..

He's putting words into my mouth just because I want to call HIM a HE and that OUTRAGES HIS feminine side...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by nefardec revolting (thanks though)

Oh come on, no need to nitpick.

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Originally posted by VDub See that's just it... I don't care what this guy wears or how he identifies himself... I don't feel that he's inferior because he wants to see himself as a woman... He is not revolting to me in the least... I have no problem with anything that he does.. He's putting words into my mouth just because I want to call HIM a HE and that OUTRAGES HIS feminine side...

What a piece of work.

By calling me 'he' and 'guy', you're implying that my gender identity is inferior to your belief about what gender is. This is the definition of cissexism, and this is why you are a bigot. Other people's identities aren't up to you.

Actually maybe it's not even that you're a bigot, you're just a dense asshole who doesn't know any better, despite being presented with 21st century facts.

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Originally posted by enydo I mean, I get that, I'm just saying they're only trying to illicit a reaction from you, and they're succeeding. Standing up for what you believe in is great, and I'm sure a lot of people on here who are actually decent people agree with most of what you say. People like this VDub fellow though.... yeah.

I was NOT trying to illicit any kid of reaction from him. I was just taking part in a conversation in which I stated my opinion...

I didn't call him a freak, fag, ladyboy, or anything else derogatory...

Are you really saying that I'm indecent for not wanting to call him a she??

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

I was guessing by your prose and tone that you must be trolling, or something.

I suppose you're just an idiot.

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Originally posted by VDub I didn't call her a freak?

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Originally posted by VDub Now I know you're messed up....

Yes, you did.

The most idiotic part of this all is that this is someone who doesn't even know me, has never met me or talked to me, and should have had no strong reason to ever call me 'he' in the first place.

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Originally posted by nefardec what you're saying is suggesting some sort of natural law that should structure individual identity and culture at large, equivalent to someone saying "All I've said is that if you have black skin, you're inferior. It doesn't matter what you want to be... " "All I've said is that if you don't believe in god, you're immoral and going to burn in hell. It doesn't matter what you want to believe... " maybe that you don't believe in these two statements will help you understand how ridiculous you sound. what you don't seem to understand is that 'he' and 'she' are concepts that are separate from 'dick' and 'pussy'. yes, i was born with a penis. but a 'man' is more than a penis, a 'man' or a 'woman' is a more or less normal constellation of cultural expectations, roles, behaviors, fashions, etc. this is known as 'gender'. smarter people than you have collectively determined that if you have a dick, all that means is you have a dick. gender identity varies. and in many places around the world there are more than two genders officially recognized. if you had any level of intelligence whatsoever, you'd also recognize that there are additional sex characteristics besides genitals - namely, namely sex hormones, secondary characteristics such as breasts, proportions, body hair patterns, etc. By these definitions a transgender woman such as myself could hardly be called "male". Additionally, neurological research shows that the brain functions of transsexuals closely match the brain patterns of their identified sex, suggesting a biological basis for gender identity disorder. But really because we're talking about language, it's not about biology - it's about identity, and communication, and respect. When you use the word 'he', it shows that all you care about communicating is what kind of genital I have at the moment, which is a total assumption anyway considering we have not met, and you sure as hell have not seen up my skirt. This is why I have called you a cave man: to you anyone's actual gender identity is unimportant, because you only refer to them as 'how make sex with'. and on a side note, i think one of the reasons that discrimination against transgender people and cissexism is so rarely discussed is because most people take gender so for granted that they don't even realize it. Gender is one of the last remaining cultural 'truths' in society. Racial hegemony fell. Religious hegemony fell. Patriarchal hegemony fell. Sexual hegemony fell. And cissexual hegemony will fall too.

See.. This is the problem with humanity. Too many ppl think that they are special and above the basic structure of life..

Whatever. I have no desire to argue with you about what you want to do with your life. You do as you wish.

Just don't call me a bigot. I am not a bigot...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

Do transgender people have PMS? Because you're being really bitchy Avana.

If you're secure with your gender choice then why do you feel the need to subject yourself to people you claim "don't understand" you?

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Originally posted by VDub See.. This is the problem with humanity. Too many ppl think that they are special and above the basic structure of life.. Whatever. I have no desire to argue with you about what you want to do with your life. You do as you wish. Just don't call me a bigot. I am not a bigot...

you know nothing about the biology of sex and the biology and neurology of gender, or you would not be arguing this with me.

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Originally posted by Alex Do transgender people have PMS? Because you're being really bitchy Avana. If you're secure with your gender choice then why do you feel the need to subject yourself to people you claim "don't understand" you?

Yes, people undergoing hormone replacement therapy cycle with their medication schedule. I have a hormonal period every two weeks basically. But I'm not having it right now.

I did, however, work 20+ hours on the weekend, til 6:30 am, got three hours of sleep, and then did a full day of work, only to come on this forum and read a bunch of transphobic, insensitive remarks. yes, transgender people are human, and yes, i'm kind of tired of the bullshit.

it really isn't much to ask to refer to me as 'she'. try going through your whole life watching your body transform itself into a grotesque opposite of your self image, try telling everyone in your life that the person they though they knew never really existed. i'm telling you this because you likely have little idea what it is like or how negative even things that so seem trivial to you as pronouns can be to a transgender person, who have literally fought a biological and psychological war with himself/herself for a lifetime. I'm one of the lucky ones - strong, resilient, lucky enough to have had a great, loving family, talented, successful, etc. In my case just i just flip out at some of these bullshit comments, and more on some days than others.

But consider the transgender suicide rate is around 20-30%, with around 50% attempted. Other people might not be so lucky as me, and so I say this on behalf of my weaker brothers and sisters: be nice. be respectful. pronouns matter.

Last edited by nefardec on Jul-26-2011 at 00:28

Endyo and Nefardec...

The King and QUEEN(happy?) of hypocrisy in this thread...

I can't call a guy a he but they can call me an idiot, a bigot, and a caveman.

I don't think that either of you have ever met or spoken with me either...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.

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Originally posted by nefardec don't believe in god = atheist end of story

End of story?

It's not that simple. I was actually looking for more of a thought-out and insightful answer.

I don't believe in a God, but I don't consider myself Atheist either. I hate being categorized, and that's the part of religion that I dislike the most. People claim to be "this" or "that" religion because it's common practice among society according to their belief, yet many times find themselves being hypocrites to the same religion they practice and supposedly adhere to. What's the point of a certain religious label, if there no credibility behind it?

I find inner-peace with nature at times (spiritually, and scientifically), but I don't consider myself part of a Naturalistic Nature Religion of some sorts.