let me tell you guys about the experimental music scene in toronto, since that's the only one i participate in, and its useful as an example of a specialist scene. guys like hardcore trancer and SPANIARD are much more knowledgable about the trance scene in the city than i am.

really, the scene is about 3 small clubs and a guy's renovated living room (a few couches, a lot of mismatched chairs and a decent soundsystem). there are also numerous bars & other venues rented for one night to accomodate an out-of-town performer or bigger event.

regular participants probably number around 50. these guys are really dedicated, but no commercial success will come. Robert Rich came to perform at a church for an audience of about 70 a while back.

it's not dance music, so there is no network in place to establish really big gigs.

more later, when i have time. at work currently.

edit: what j00f is able to offer is some institutional support because of his links. if you really got something great going, then you'll get in one way or another. talent gets noticed. while what some have said that the underground stays that way, it's also true that the underground can appear even in big clubs -- like when a basically unknown guy gets to open or fill in the slot before or after someone like j00f. we are not talking about sound either -- we are talking about exposure. if joof got placed for a big in some jammed club alongaside some act like Cosmic Gate, then alot of people just heard a totally different sound. the way he handles the crowd and the progression of the night, there is no way they would get tired and leave before seeing their favorite drop anthems if that's what they are there for.

it comes down to trusting j00f to helping amateurs come up and get noticed. we can't kid ourselves that we don't trust the established forums/dj's/clubs etc. because we rely on them to bring talent in all the time.

i dunno what kind of framework he wants to put in place, what system to get people working, talking, sharing sets, tunes, but we gotta be willing to help. the best support TA has got in the last while is j00f coming into this thread and recognizing the crowd here offering serious power in swaying opinion.

Last edited by pozz on Jul-27-2011 at 22:25

I appreciate how john is so honest and passionate.

quote:

Originally posted by pozz we are not talking about sound either -- we are talking about exposure. if joof got placed for a big in some jammed club alongaside some act like Cosmic Gate, then alot of people just heard a totally different sound. the way he handles the crowd and the progression of the night, there is no way they would get tired and leave before seeing their favorite drop anthems if that's what they are there for.

The majority of the gigs J00F plays (or used to play until very recently) are like that. Certainly, both times I've been to see him he was bolted incongruously onto a line-up of useless anthem-merchants. It hasn't changed anything yet.

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quote:

Originally posted by AY STAR very good response, i was actually gonna write something very similar the past few years i started evolveing and moving away from the big guys who sold out last cheesey event i went to was anjuna night at wmc this year, i regret not going to bedrock night instead...the music at anjuna was soooo cheesey and predictable...sun and moon,on a good day bullshit and you got these kids eatting it up and singing their lungs out at the same time thinking its trance music, never again do i support bullshit like that as for j00f, i wish you the best of luck with your new nights i hope it sparks something, me personally i do support local dj's and i see dj's who keep it real and not play the top 10 tracks on beatport or whore out their own productions for 2 hours and call it set...BUT i feel it's going to take more than just you to really change the way people see electronic dance music, you are pretty much the only trance dj speaking out about this...its going to take a few more and someone bigger to really get peoples attention hopefully dj's in other genre's from house and techno will follow and bash guetta and shm for makeing pop house music heres a link from the dj mag poll in 2001 http://www.olddjmag.com/index.php?y...00dj_op=results thats when it was a time when the music spoke for the dj, not facebook whoreing,pop tracks,selling out etc etc today its really a joke gareth emery above carl cox,digweed,hawtin,tenaglia etc etc they are the godfathers of modern edm its such a shame i havent voted since 2007 thats how bad it has been these past few years

I think the big name that is closest to not being commercial and thinks in a similar way is Markus Schulz. Get him to help

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quote:

Originally posted by foothegreat I think the big name that is closest to not being commercial and thinks in a similar way is Markus Schulz. Get him to help

you're wrong.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lolo you're wrong.

u Airwave? do tell more. I know u and Schulz used to be pretty tight

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we indeed used to... which is exactly why I'm telling that's not the right thing to do.

Yesterday, I made a public statement on my facebook page that all my fans should vote for john this year as their #1 and I'm going to tell you why.

Back in 2009 I was completely lost and some people took profit of my bad state and screwed me big time. John and I were very close during the same period and the only thing he was concerned about is how I'd get out of trouble. He didn't any second take profit of my situation, unlike some effing moron from MD, USA that I'd throw by the window if he ever came to me again. But oh well, I'll eventually keep those crusty stories for press releases. hehehe.

We're now two years later, and I can tell you that thanks to him I'm totally out of trouble, mentally back on track, and I've got one hell of an album coming up.

The man has proved me that you could stick to your roots and thoughts yet have a successful career.

Out of the thousands of dj's and artists, I've never seen anyone that socially available.

I think John himself would avoid those ranking things if he could, but the time has come to show you guys what we all have overlooked the past 6 years, and john is here and acting this way for that reason only.

I seriously owe him a lot. I was about to tear my career apart and he saved me.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lolo we indeed used to... which is exactly why I'm telling that's not the right thing to do. Yesterday, I made a public statement on my facebook page that all my fans should vote for john this year as their #1 and I'm going to tell you why. Back in 2009 I was completely lost and some people took profit of my bad state and screwed me big time. John and I were very close during the same period and the only thing he was concerned about is how I'd get out of trouble. He didn't any second take profit of my situation, unlike some effing moron from MD, USA that I'd throw by the window if he ever came to me again. But oh well, I'll eventually keep those crusty stories for press releases. hehehe. We're now two years later, and I can tell you that thanks to him I'm totally out of trouble, mentally back on track, and I've got one hell of an album coming up. The man has proved me that you could stick to your roots and thoughts yet have a successful career. Out of the thousands of dj's and artists, I've never seen anyone that socially available. I think John himself would avoid those ranking things if he could, but the time has come to show you guys what we all have overlooked the past 6 years, and john is here and acting this way for that reason only. I seriously owe him a lot. I was about to tear my career apart and he saved me.

Glad to hear that everything worked out well for you at the end and we cant wait to hear your new album.

cheers.

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Hi John,

For twelve years i have given this scene my full support. From standing outside the clubs at 3AM in cold winter nights handing out flyers to attending gigs whenever and wherever possible and much more. I have seen people with fantastic talent give up because of reasons mentioned by you and i also have examples of people continuing to put in the effort even though they do not have the resources of the big name DJs and labels. In my 'experience' fans will support those who musically satisfy their needs. Everything else is secondary. It was proven so back in 2005 with some of great nights at Viva; Laurent, you were part of one of those nights. Same is being proven nowadays again by Oz and his team at Vola. Such instances of success for fresh sound and new talent can be found in other places as well.

With that being said i will vote for you because i am just as passionate about music as you are. I will however say that i don't think it is going to make much of a difference. If you end up with a number that gets you the corporate recognition then i am afraid that this number is going to also attract the "corporate fans" people who show up at clubs because that’s just how they spend their Saturday nights. They will not have a clue about who is playing, what is being played and these types of fans will increase over time. In my opinion we, the passionate lot, need to understand that we should focus on these corporate fans and bring awareness of our 'passion' to them. How do we bring this awareness? One way of doing so is exactly what you are doing, JOOF Editions night. Another way of doing so is taking fellow artists like Laurent and Christopher under one umbrella and launching a movement to bring this passion to other people. This movement does not require any corporate assistance. I think places like TA, Facebook, Twitter and My Space can do the trick. I am sure people will help seeing that you are leading by example. Look at the responses you are receiving here and what you get on Facebook. I think you should first focus on bringing other artist with your similar passion on board, actually launch a movement and watch the support you get. You will be surprised to see how many people are waiting for someone to take charge and bring the scene out of this corporate shit hole.

Fans who appreciate you, your music and your passion will support you not only with their time and efforts but financially as well. I will do it. Fans will support you once they actually see you bringing the movement and i think that you can start without relying on this Dj poll. John, do not count on this Dj poll to bring the Trance back ... let’s work on plan B. I have some other ideas as well which i will share with you separately. Artists who really want to bring the old days back need to get behind John, and fans who believe that the old days can be brought back need to support all these artists not only by showing up at their gigs but behind the scenes as well whenever possible. Promoters and clubs will follow automatically when they see the movement growing.

Let's work on bringing the passion back into clubs - let’s bring Trance back. Let's bring the change!!!

Cheers,

Tyler.

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Let's bring the change!!!

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGrooves Let's work on bringing the passion back into clubs - let’s bring Trance back. Let's bring the change!!!

great post Trancegrooves!
Reading this discussion gives me positive vibes! What John is trying to do is all about our music, real trance music. We need to protect our scene, preserving it from disappearing. Giving back the name "trance" to where and to who it belongs.
Maybe we can even open eyes of the big ones, who we helped to grow up because they played fantastic trance. But who nowadays abuse the name trance...

John, I support your plan! We need a forum, and this may be the right way to do it!

Indeed, you have to find support from other producers/DJs thinking the same way. Like Airwave does. The ones who are reading here, please reply!

Yeah, this thread has evolved in a really interesting fashion. I didn't expect so much intelligent discussion. Truth be told - I wasn't planning on voting this year. I didn't really see the point in it. I'll go ahead and vote anyway, based on the best parties I've been to over the past year.

1. J00F (haven't seen him in ~14 months but it was great and this thread is working for me)
2. Hawtin (my first time seeing him...was transcendent)
3. Sasha
4. Eelke Kleijn (haven't had a chance to see him play yet. Productions are magic, though)
5. Schulz (I almost always have fun at his parties, and I refuse to believe his whole attitude is just a marketing gimmick. I still think his heart is in the right place. He comes off as a genuinely nice guy, and always seems to have time for his fans.)