"enough with the claws man... YOU DO NOT HAVE ADAMANTIUM INSIDE YOU"

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quote:

Originally posted by ziptnf my friend Jesse broke the news to his Facebook that he has become a transgender woman named "Rachel"

I chuckled. Actually no... i didn't

always found this kinda ironic in that

TG people feel they are a certain gender but because of what society deems normal for that gender, which has permeated the person's core belief system , they feel they need to meet those requirements making alterations that never really get anywhere close. So now you have a female that doesn't fit the normal gender traits of a female or vice versa. It seems like a no win situation.

I think individuals that do this would be much better served working on reversing the nonsensical gender bs that has been programmed from birth because no matter how much you think getting boobs will make you more a female, that gender will never see you as part of it and you will still be in this limbo trying to fit in when you should be wondering why you even care.

I think the problem is what it means to be male or female and these types of changes are sadly superficial attempts to fit with what you have been told is normal to how you think you should be.

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quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney I think the problem is what it means to be male or female and these types of changes are sadly superficial attempts to fit with what you have been told is normal to how you think you should be.

I can't say I've read enough about it or talked to people going through it deeply enough to really know what drives people to do it, but I agree with this. It's a pretty fucking extreme reaction to not wanting to conform to socially created notions of gender behaviour, though.

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i imagine it is very similar to how Chapelle felt in that skit where he thought he was white.

HOnestly, i just don't care enough but one thing that i would say is kinda fucked is how these operations are subsidized in particular Canada. It is at heart a mental health issue and there doesn't really seem to be insurances that these people have exhausted other solutions to their ailments before doing very expensive surgery that unless i just don't know about , has not really shown to be very effective in treating the actual issue of feeling like you don't belong.

My girlfriend has been brainwashed by modern media to assume that you have to be a super model. She is obsessed with beauty and any psychologist would diagnose her with some mixture of OCD , low self esteem and a unrealistic self image. She wants a nose job, a boob job, a scar that i didn't know even existed removed and i can tell you that even with all this , she would still feel like she needed something more.

Seems more effective to treat the fixation on social norms that are not rational. Or at least try getting this kind of help before you start cutting shit off and costing people money.

I mean i don't really feel male. I hate sports, i make a living with music, I enjoy war history, I like opera, i enjoy metal, i hate hippies and i've destroyed phalanxes of vaginas.I lift weights but think people that take their shirts off and dance like apes could use a vasectomy. I'm actually a dolphin. I don't know. Not to minimize their suffering but i feel about as much sympathy as i do with people with drug addiction issues, restless leg syndrom. It sucks , but for some reason, i just think you need to accept the cards you've been given and move on. At least you ain't black.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Apr-27-2012 at 19:36

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney always found this kinda ironic in that TG people feel they are a certain gender but because of what society deems normal for that gender, which has permeated the person's core belief system , they feel they need to meet those requirements making alterations that never really get anywhere close. So now you have a female that doesn't fit the normal gender traits of a female or vice versa. It seems like a no win situation. I think individuals that do this would be much better served working on reversing the nonsensical gender bs that has been programmed from birth because no matter how much you think getting boobs will make you more a female, that gender will never see you as part of it and you will still be in this limbo trying to fit in when you should be wondering why you even care. I think the problem is what it means to be male or female and these types of changes are sadly superficial attempts to fit with what you have been told is normal to how you think you should be.

You're not completely wrong, but there is more to it than that.. Just because someone feels that they don't completely fit within their 'appointed' gender role, doesn't mean they're gonna conclude that they must really be the opposite sex. They may not entirely fit within the gender role of the opposite sex either, so transitioning might be pointless.

People don't just switch to the opposite sex because of some small obstacles with gender expectations, that would be absurd.. it's a lot more internal and pervasive than that. They don't just feel out of place in their expected gender role, they feel out of place in their own bodies. They feel like this is not who they're supposed to be, even if society can be accepting of cross-gender behavior, that's quite separate from how they would still feel about their anatomy.

EDIT: Extensive counseling is a part of transitioning. It doesn't even happen without psychiatric evaluation.

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Last edited by Intellekshual on Apr-27-2012 at 19:49

seems like a mental health issue. An irrational self image perpetuated or exasperated by social norms. Either way, this is one operation that does not address a medical issue that can't be treated in more conventional ways. Those girls that feel they have to have a boob job, not quite as severe but more or less on the same spectrum. Should those be covered. I mean ideally yes if these girls are single but it seems the second you start to weigh the pros and cons of anything that kinda ties into the plight of the LGBT community, you get a bunch of people all militant. Do what you want, but if we are going to subsidize these risky low succes rate operations that don't address the real issue, then i want a fucking shark fin. And i don't want to pay. Or wiskers. Catfish.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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Even from a very detached standpoint, it's worth it to subsidize the surgeries because insuring someone against a lifetime of depression and other, actually diagnosable mental health disorders has far more of a collateral cost upon companies and society as a whole.

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quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Seems more effective to treat the fixation on social norms that are not rational.

That's pretty much my answer to many problems but this sentence digresses from what I'm about to type and should be ignored if you're going to read the next parts of this post.

The thing is TG people probably will react this way: "This is how I am, I am not acting the way society gazes on me. I am not me." I react with "self-image is contingent upon the gaze of others, and the internal is a product of both itself, and external factors" but the thing is I think that a lot of people think the locus of control when it comes to one's self comes from within.

The thing is people generally give a damn about what people view them as according to other people and to themselves which is also governed by other people, so I just shrug my shoulders and say "reflect on the panoptic gaze of social norms and how it controls your body AND MIND before you self-brand yourself, but if you still disagree with what I'm saying, then more power to you." Tropes and archetypes are a part of every day life, and some people want to follow that.

As for paying money and comparing depressed girls with poor body image who want boob jobs to TG people who aren't the sex they were born as, I don't know what to say about it. Working a lame 9-5 is pretty depressing, I hope someone pays me comfortably to cure my depression.

My situation is not really the same thing to me though, it's like comparing paying a prostitute perform while you pleasure yourself and pleasuring yourself while you watch a porno actress perform in a porn you paid for. Maybe they are the same, but that's kind of digressing from the topic at hand, and it's not really a position I stand on.

but that doesn't seem to be the case. Even after the surgeries, the issue never really goes away. The only studies i come across are ones that state that even post op TG suffer from the same malaise they did. It doesn't improve long term mental health. So they are going to use just as much mental health resources if they didn't.

I suppose it isn't really a popular procedure so fuck it , let them have it as i'm sure a much more privileged group gets nice perks too. But it seems that it doesn't really solve anything, and i would much rather the system go to procedures that have a track record of working. It isn't like it is expensive. I just checked out some figures. 10 000. You want it , fucking work a few months and get it.

I am rather biased tho. I require medication only psychiatrists really hand out and when i am in Canada , it was fucking impossible to actually see someone. I even forged prescriptions at one point because i had no fucking other options. Now i know that as far as the actual people that use the resources, sex assignment accounts for probably 0.005 but still. it kinda pisses me off when i see people getting these surgeries that have abysmal success rates while i wait to just see a psychiatrist to get a simple prescription. It is so bad that i actually fly out to see my sister who is a doctor and know other doctors but in montreal where i spend about 1/4 of my time, good luck.

___________________
"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Apr-27-2012 at 20:57

selma you know way too much on this topic. Is there something youd like to tell us?

quote:

there are anywhere from 3-7 genders being identified.