quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld You don't have to kill Armin Kosmotika, the ASOT guard is basically just fighting over scraps now. I went to a big ASOT gig earlier this year, and what I found there was mostly a bunch of 35+ year old manchildren, possibly dragged along by their much younger girlfriends or maybe they are people of the trance-M type, I don't know. Point is they were just standing around in an XTC daze doing things that don't involve dancing. They get fewer people each year as well, it's dying. The DJ's running armada are a bunch of dinosaurs who have no clue on how to make people dance any more, they've done a stellar job milking all the reputation their marketing teams managed to scrap up for them but they're running out of people to fool. They've done eastern Europe and Asia now. The US may well sustain them for a while longer, but in Europe things are changing rapidly. Techno is booming and attracting hordes of young people, and the current sound of techno is pretty damn old-school. It wouldn't surprise me if we're indeed going trough the motions again. We've got the big silly rave music of today going on in the house scene with the whole dubstep- electro- hardstyle-house movement paired with gritty straight-forward techno in the more underground establishments. Trance lurks somewhere in between, it's in the overlap, and people may well find it as they move in between the two extremes. But who knows eh?

At least around these parts ASOT ran out of steam a few years ago. Around 2010/2011 or so most of the ASOT shows turned into dubstep/cheese house shows.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'd say the overlap is inhabited by the deep/garage house sound that's so big right now. It's populist and accessible enough for kids to like it but it retains enough classic house dancefloor universalism not to be written off by serious music fans. I know loads of people who never had any real interest in club music who are suddenly asking me if I can recommend them deep house DJs. And, of course, Rudimental and Disclosure have crossed over into the charts in a massive way. Trance music is completely off the radar by comparison. I doubt a lot of teenagers even know what "trance music" is supposed to mean nowadays.

It's not really there right now sure, but the point is that there's room for it even with deep house on the up. It's not unlikely that the current techno scene will offshoot in a more melodic direction once more. With new producers, new audiences. Why not?
The term may well die, the music will not.

___________________
Mixes: Alaé (Conceptional ambient dub)
AOTSE (Experimental)

Listens:
http://www.last.fm/user/bierheld

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i think the biggest thing that jumps out at me when i listen to the modern tunes in this thread compared to older songs is really just the different approach to production today's artists take. i tend to find a lot of newer stuff over processed and that's why i'm not a big fan of it, but what are you gonna do right?

Exactly, one of my first posts on TA (with this account) was criticizing modern production techniques, such as sidechaining nearly every sound but the kick, overcompression, the "loudness wars" etc.
Needless to say I got some heat for that...

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld You don't have to kill Armin Kosmotika, the ASOT guard is basically just fighting over scraps now. I went to a big ASOT gig earlier this year, and what I found there was mostly a bunch of 35+ year old manchildren, possibly dragged along by their much younger girlfriends or maybe they are people of the trance-M type, I don't know. Point is they were just standing around in an XTC daze doing things that don't involve dancing. They get fewer people each year as well, it's dying. The DJ's running armada are a bunch of dinosaurs who have no clue on how to make people dance any more, they've done a stellar job milking all the reputation their marketing teams managed to scrap up for them but they're running out of people to fool. They've done eastern Europe and Asia now. The US may well sustain them for a while longer, but in Europe things are changing rapidly. Techno is booming and attracting hordes of young people, and the current sound of techno is pretty damn old-school. It wouldn't surprise me if we're indeed going trough the motions again. We've got the big silly rave music of today going on in the house scene with the whole dubstep- electro- hardstyle-house movement paired with gritty straight-forward techno in the more underground establishments. Trance lurks somewhere in between, it's in the overlap, and people may well find it as they move in between the two extremes. But who knows eh?

Yeah, I totally know what you mean...got a few of those types when I saw Ferry last year. Half the place was just standing around with their hands in the air. They paid 30$ to raise their arms and stand still?? Crazy people.
The awful thing is that I actually have loads of stuff from Armin in my collection, he used to make some really solid stuff. Blue Fear, Check Out Your Mind, his remixes of Moogwai - Viola, Cygnus X - Positron, etc
So for me, it's kind of a slap in the face for him to do a complete turnaround on trance and then have the nerve to mess with the community by labeling his summer pop tunes as trance and posing like Jesus like he thinks he's hot shit.
Link me up to some of this UK techno, we've got some "techno" DJs running around in my area, but they more or less just play boring 120-something bpm minimal house. If it's anything like the techno tracks produced by Joel Mull, Marco V, Andreas Kramer and the like, I'm sure I'll open this new movement with open arms.
Really hoping to be at the forefront of this new chapter, being a producer and (albeit crappy) DJ myself. It would be very cool to be one of the people to bring trance out of the woodwork again.

___________________
Elitist and smalltime label owner
PM me your oldschool style trance tunes for potential worldwide digital releasing and free mastering!
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quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld You don't have to kill Armin Kosmotika, the ASOT guard is basically just fighting over scraps now. I went to a big ASOT gig earlier this year, and what I found there was mostly a bunch of 35+ year old manchildren, possibly dragged along by their much younger girlfriends or maybe they are people of the trance-M type, I don't know. Point is they were just standing around in an XTC daze doing things that don't involve dancing. They get fewer people each year as well, it's dying. The DJ's running armada are a bunch of dinosaurs who have no clue on how to make people dance any more, they've done a stellar job milking all the reputation their marketing teams managed to scrap up for them but they're running out of people to fool. They've done eastern Europe and Asia now. The US may well sustain them for a while longer, but in Europe things are changing rapidly.

Not really my type, but many of my age as I know some people who went. No XTC for me, never even tried, no ASOT shows either and my wife is just half a year younger. Next to that no hands up in the air, I hate it to see all those people looking at the stage with their phones in their hands, that's not dancing like we used to do.
Seeing me at a Bonzai Retro party would be more likely to happen, although I won't deny I could enjoy some ASOT sets as I love good uplifting melodic (vocal) trance and then it doesn't matter if it's 20 years old or just a few months. I just love the synth sound and melodies and I'm pretty sure some of those producers make these tracks which all tend do sound the same just because they are addicted to the sound for the same reason some house producers stick to the old fashion house sound. I often get the impression it's not possible to like old fashion trance next to the modern stuff, but for me that's the case. And I even still enjoy the other genres I listened to in the 90's as well, although Eurodance and Happy Hardcore a lot less meanwhile.

___________________

Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

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Originally posted by John 00 Fleming Hi Guys, I'd like to join the conversation here as it's a great debate. Every human being has subjective views that are personal to them, my previous greatest Trance track was completely overlooked and miss understood, but to me it hit the nail on the head to what is my take personal take on the essence of Trance, especially as I saw first hand what it did to dance floors each week. Others will have a completely different choice, there is no right or wrong. Here's the track: I've been known to have the odd rant now and then, but that is when I was in a frustrated lost place due to not being able to find the music I wanted. I've learnt by venting words doesn't make this music appear, it just makes people talk about it, and usually reminisce about old times. So I now take action. There's constant talk about the lack of serious Trance, this doesn't exactly encourage producers to get in the studio to make this style thinking it's a style that no one wants, especially in the current climate of people following 'trends' set by A lists. Yes recently I've been openly saying positive things about the more serious side of Trance becoming more active, because I'm personally seeing it due to being one of the rare DJ’s that supports. It's surprising how many producers get motivated when a well know DJ speaks out supporting the more underground scene, especially at a time when you feel you're swimming upstream against the masses, it can be a lonely place I've been to many times. I’ve never sold my dignity and will always stay true to what I believe in musically, though this can often be a frustrating journey not being able to find the music that I need. Psy has been a faithful friend over the past decade filling a musical void in the harder parts of my sets, but not a perfect fit, especially with this world starting to fall victim of fashion and starting to sound ‘samish’ like its all coming from the same studio. My recent sets and radio shows reflect this, with me playing less. So what is next for Trance? Do I lose my faith, keep quiet and watch the commercial machines continue to control their monopoly. It would be easy for me to jump ship to something more mainstream and enjoy the finical rewards, but I’ve been with Trance since it was born in the early 90’s and have faith in its ever evolving sound..yes things have got stale in the past few years, but as history shows, Trance will come through again and I’m seeing the very same signs that I’ve seen previously. John Re a comment regarding JOOF releases, JOOF tracks are not meant to be memorable they are DJs tools aimed squarely for the dance floor and not for radio. That's always been my ethos, being a traditional DJ.

trance would have made a comeback the day there is enough tracks to create a white label euphoria 3.

there would need to be a pretty massive tidal shift for that to happen though.

the paring back of post-production values would be one of the most important things to happen, to let the tracks breathe like they are supposed to!

the over-compressed, lacquered, impenetrable sound of modern tracks is an absolute atmosphere killer. that shit needs to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Not really my type, but many of my age as I know some people who went. No XTC for me, never even tried, no ASOT shows either and my wife is just half a year younger. Next to that no hands up in the air, I hate it to see all those people looking at the stage with their phones in their hands, that's not dancing like we used to do. Seeing me at a Bonzai Retro party would be more likely to happen, although I won't deny I could enjoy some ASOT sets as I love good uplifting melodic (vocal) trance and then it doesn't matter if it's 20 years old or just a few months. I just love the synth sound and melodies and I'm pretty sure some of those producers make these tracks which all tend do sound the same just because they are addicted to the sound for the same reason some house producers stick to the old fashion house sound. I often get the impression it's not possible to like old fashion trance next to the modern stuff, but for me that's the case. And I even still enjoy the other genres I listened to in the 90's as well, although Eurodance and Happy Hardcore a lot less meanwhile.

There was actually a bonzai classics party that very same night from hat I remember, but as much as I nagged at the stubborn heads of my friends to change plans it just didn't happen.

In any case, I don't have a problem with the motivation of those ASOT guys, but it strikes me as if they're trying to put that '99 sound they love so much in a modern jacket in an attempt to attract the younger folks, but it just doesn't work like that. With all those long vocal breaks and pop influences they are sacrificing danceability. That way the parties become concerts and the DJ's become just another expandable pop fad.
It's just not the environment dance music needs to thrive in. It's fine for older folks who already know exactly what they want to hear, but young people are drawn in by festivals or partying enclaves like Ibiza, were DJ's are only as good as how many people they can draw in from next door and were they are confronted with the inspiring sight of thousands of people dancing in unison.

___________________
Mixes: Alaé (Conceptional ambient dub)
AOTSE (Experimental)

Listens:
http://www.last.fm/user/bierheld

Last edited by Bierheld on Apr-15-2014 at 21:52

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld There was actually a bonzai classics party that very same night from hat I remember, but as much as I nagged at the stubborn heads of my friends to change plans it just didn't happen. In any case, I don't have a problem with the motivation of those ASOT guys, but it strikes me as if they're trying to put that 99 sound they love so much in a modern jacket in an attempt to attract the younger folks, but it just doesn't work like that. With all those long vocal breaks and pop influences they are sacrificing danceability. That way the parties become concerts and the DJ's become just another expandable pop fad. It's just not the environment dance music needs to thrive in. It's fine for older folks who already know exactly what they want to hear, but young people are drawn in by festivals or partying enclaves like Ibiza, were DJ's are only as good as how many people they can draw in from next door and were they are confronted with the inspiring sight of thousands of people dancing in unison.

One Bonzai party was in Hasselt (B) and after that one at Eindhoven if I remember correctly.

I can't deny about the danceability in general, experienced enough dancing through the 90's, although I personally don't have a problem with dancing at uplifting and melodic tracks like e.g. Blue Silence & Matt Chowski - Nothing To Fear (New World Remix).
Also with this one I can still handle the number of sounds, but maybe I also got used to it and of course I have listened to other genres for a long time. Youngster don't have this experience and background, probably can't remember the time that the DJ was somewhere in the dark at a corner of the club.
The DJ worshiping is something I never really understood. Some resident DJ's probably even are better without all the acting. Looking at the recent Gaia performance as monks I also got the idea people didn't know how to act, as Armin and Benno didn't do anything on the stage except what they should do. Not a single hand up in the air, no interaction with the crowd, I loved that (but the music to me wasn't amazing).
There should be more variation at parties I think, like it used to be in the clubs. It's too much focused at one genre. That's the problem with DJ's becoming stars, the genre tag came with it.

___________________

Longest (classic) Trance playlist on YouTube (5000 tracks released up to and including 1997), click here

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think that's a strange thing to say when you've made a thread called "Good old fashioned trance". For me, "living in the now" means moving on from trying to find "good old fashioned trance" with modern production and actually embrace all the great club music being made. I'll still go see J00F because he's a fantastic DJ, and artists like Cosmithex and Solar Fields are still world class, but I've given up scraping around on Beatport for the one half decent track out of every 100.

yes i see the paradox in the title - but the production is top notch and compared to what flies as trance right now it is actually forward thinking. i read in another thread you are off trance right now and thats fair enough but it does make me think its more a state of mind thing than searching for scraps (and yes i know goto the deep house top 10 right now in beatport and it seems all the creativity and taste in dance music is funnelled straight there), but the best tunes have always been hard to find

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Last edited by Light The Fuse on Apr-16-2014 at 12:12

I don't really agree with that. I was listening through some old back catalogues that are available on Beatport for labels from the 1999-2003 era and I found more good tunes in an hour than I usually do in a month of looking for new trance/progressive tracks.

The reason I've gone off trance is because it's feeding on scraps, and I've realised how silly that, and the whole "scene", is. Most of the people involved make me want to bang my head repeatedly on a wall every time they open their mouths.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't really agree with that. I was listening through some old back catalogues that are available on Beatport for labels from the 1999-2003 era and I found more good tunes in an hour than I usually do in a month of looking for new trance/progressive tracks.

1999-2003 trance was going though the same thing that deep house is now. you obviously know the score - sasha etc was the biggest name in dance music at his peak and he (along with the likes of oakenfold & the dutch) were finding and inspiring the best young minds and getting total raw awesomeness from them....

i always respect your opinion because they generally contain logic - but the argument of "i don't agree because of old stuf/nostalgic value" - i do not buy.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The reason I've gone off trance is because it's feeding on scraps, and I've realised how silly that, and the whole "scene", is. Most of the people involved make me want to bang my head repeatedly on a wall every time they open their mouths.

...and right now (putting aside all the 'EDM' stuff) most of those young fertile minds that want something alternative but awesome are turning to deep/tech house styles - because it is quite a generic template that allows creativity with taste. trance was like that back in about 1996 - stuff like hart house, lieb, cosmic baby, cygnus etc. It was the roadmap and the world was your oyster - and through the mid and late 90s-early 00s we felt the reverberations and got got the best trance we ever heard.

listening to what john says (and plays) - its year zero - start from scratch. trance isn't cool right now (it never really ever has been). but trance is trance - its up there with house and techno when it comes to 4x4 dance music and always will be - its not going to die - the tide is turning, its always darkest before dawn, every cloud has a silver lining and every cliche i can think of..

believe me trance - the real kind - esperanza and icon - desire and age of love and cosmic baby and cygnus x and all that stuff - its ripe as a juicy peach about to fall from a tree - and the tunes are already flowing...its up to you - if you are sick of it and wanna listen to crap talkers then so be it.

it is there and its only going to get better - in about 2016 we will be re-living 1996 all over again.

however i will always stick by my guns - its all fads and fashion. i just live in my little sleepy trance niche.

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Last edited by Light The Fuse on Apr-16-2014 at 15:04

quote:

Originally posted by Light The Fuse i always respect your opinion because they generally contain logic - but the argument of "i don't agree because of old stuf/nostalgic value" - i do not buy.

Surely you can see it was "I don't agree" followed by logical reasoning for my disagreement? When trance and progressive were strong there were 20-30 producers who were just guaranteed quality, and hardly obscure. I don't need to give you the names. Even before you get into lesser-known acts and one-hit wonders that's a pool of producers who would make 100 great tracks a year between them. So I just cannot agree that good tunes were always hard to find. When a scene is strong you can't move for great tracks.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

how many 1994 names can you give me that consistentley delivered? its a 20 year cycle.

i do agree that it all shouldn't be contained to one label or one way of things (armada has proved that) and i hope, as great as Joof recordings is, i just hope that it does not dominate (and it does) too much because this will just turn them into another armada.

but thats not up to joof (and subsidiaries) - that is up to other independent minds to get their own stuff going.

right now there is no tilt or breeder etc. but there are steve birch, cosmithex, activa & quite a few more - and this is enough.

you listen to any 'classic 1992-1995 trance mix' and seriously its all hart-house with a little jam & spoon.

do the same thing today and its all joof recordings with a little lost language,iboga and some random stuff.

its not much different

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Last edited by Light The Fuse on Apr-16-2014 at 15:29